OMG RETCON! (discussion)

[Ryme]

Okay, I understand no pulls, but what's the difference between all items, all items plus break, max pulls, and some pulls?

Pretty sure they're laid out earlier in this thread as part of the choices.

All items is all items. There isn't an all items plus break -- it's max pulls plus break. In other words, ronin. Max pulls is whatever the maximum pulls option is. Some pulls is some amount less than that. Neither max nor some is defined yet, but it's some vague nebulous term for more and less.

[Cristiona]

Ohhhh. Okay. So, "max" would be, say, 20 pulls per day, and some might be 10.

Also, there is an all items plus break: Basic. I'm guessing that's a typo?

[Ryme]

Ohhhh. Okay. So, "max" would be, say, 20 pulls per day, and some might be 10.

Something like that. Or X and Y pulls per quest solved, or level gained, or ... something.

Also, there is an all items plus break: Basic. I'm guessing that's a typo?

Yeah, it was. Fixed. Sorry 'bout that.

[Hannahmaus]

Why would the hardest path be called "Maso"? Even google offers no clues as to the significance of that word.

[Harry Dresden]

I'm presuming that "Maso" is short for Masochist.

[Ryme]

yup. Restaurant/cafe where I went to college had spicy fries that went: mild, medium, hot, maso. Guess I've assumed everyone else went to my college ... or at least knew that abbreviation.

[blackmatter615]

question: assuming we implement this trainee-maso scale, what would the first run count as? Since there are no pulls, no skills, and a limited sidekick (im assuming this means re-earning a permanent sidekick as opposed to no permanent sidekick) with no food restrictions it could qualify for a grimdark run. Or would it be trainee/basic/classic?

[Muhandes]

I'd assume since you have no limits hence it's a trainee run. Also fits well within the narrative.

[Ryme]

question: assuming we implement this trainee-maso scale, what would the first run count as? Since there are no pulls, no skills, and a limited sidekick (im assuming this means re-earning a permanent sidekick as opposed to no permanent sidekick) with no food restrictions it could qualify for a grimdark run. Or would it be trainee/basic/classic?

It's basically trainee, though you do have to earn that sidekick. But just because you don't have items to pull or skills to remember, you're still free to get buffs and items from other players (some don't, but plenty of players do) to help them along. I'm not 100% if I'll actually label it a trainee run, or call it something else to make it a little more distinct.

[Cristiona]

I don't see why the first run needs to be called anything. It's your first run, not a retcon run. If we have to call it something, it can be the Original Continuity run. Can't retcon if you don't establish continuity in the first place.

[blackmatter615]

you're still free to get buffs and items from other players (some don't, but plenty of players do) to help them along.[/quote]

Buffs had not been mentioned in the above, and I am not familiar with KoL's ascension stuff (played Kol enough to ascend once, but stopped playing for lack of enjoyment). So... can the above be edited to also mention buffs and when you can receive them or not depending on which retcon you choose since it seems you have some idea about what sagas (or maybe some other more comic-booky term for run can be done) should and shouldnt allow buffs.

[Cristiona]

Buffs had not been mentioned in the above, and I am not familiar with KoL's ascension stuff

By way of comparison, in KoL, you have four main kinda of ascension:

Casual: no restrictions of any kind.
Normal/Softcore: 20 pulls per day, no outside buffs; restrictions vanish after 1000 turns.
Hardcore: No pulls, no outside buffs, only skills allowed are those that were learned in previous hardcore runs; restrictions last entire run.
Badmoon: No pulls, no outside buffs, no previous skills, no previous familiars; restrictions last entire run.

Frankly, buffs are generally pretty solidly limited on KoL. I think they probably should be limited, especially as some of them would be pretty potent early in the run. And, frankly, that's part of the reason for perm'ing skills!

So, aside from having another check-box deal, I figure we'd have:

Trainee: Free to receive all buffs as this is a no-restriction run.
Basic: Buffs restricted until after the "give me a break" point.
Classic, Champion, Silver, Gold, Temperant, Grimdark, Maso: No buffs until the run ends or you bail on the difficulty.

[Muhandes]

If we have to call it something, it can be the Original Continuity run. Can't retcon if you don't establish continuity in the first place.

I support this idea. One of the things missing from KoL is that you are not introduced to the idea of ascension from the first step. Many miss on this until they are in the game. Having such a name will help people realize from the front that there is something deeper going on.

So, aside from having another check-box deal, I figure we'd have:

Trainee: Free to receive all buffs as this is a no-restriction run.
Basic: Buffs restricted until after the "give me a break" point.
Classic, Champion, Silver, Gold, Temperant, Grimdark, Maso: No buffs until the run ends or you bail on the difficulty.

I support this too. Buffs are ev0l.

Moar shoes!!!!!

Well, I'm not sure how strongly I support this, but anything that will give more items is fine with me.

Braaaaaaaaaaaaaaains

hmmm

[Jesus]

I don't see why the first run needs to be called anything. It's your first run, not a retcon run. If we have to call it something, it can be the Original Continuity run. Can't retcon if you don't establish continuity in the first place.

Just to throw something else out there, it could also be called a First Appearance.

[Satan]

Not that this can really apply to any of us currently here, but I always kinda disliked that I had to do a basic run first without any choice in KoL. I realize that it could overwhelm some people if they chose it without realizing, but every time I had to start a new account at KoL, it always felt like a waste of a run. Some people might appreciate advanced options, and it could be used for multi accounts tooled specifically for certain runs.

[Corrupt Shadow]

...Since everyone here is into comics...

Not true; I'm not.

[Ryme]

Would it be interesting flavor to capture your reputation at the end of the run, or is that just unnecessary fluff?

[Satan]

Right now, I don't even pay attention to my reputation. If it became more important to how you play the game, maybe it'd be something to record.

[blackmatter615]

I only affect my reputation if i want to get into certain zones, otherwise i dont pay attention to it. It would be interesting if there were different retcon items available based off your last reputation...

[Corrupt Shadow]

Would it be interesting flavor to capture your reputation at the end of the run, or is that just unnecessary fluff?

I agree with Igor. I would like to keep a rep I earn.

[Muhandes]

Would it be interesting flavor to capture your reputation at the end of the run, or is that just unnecessary fluff?

unnecessary fluff

[Jesus]

Now if your rep at the time you... break the prism has an effect on what retcon rewards you might get, then it might be worth noting. Or if there's a 'Who Watches the Watchdog?' badge for finishing up X runs with that rep...

[Ryme]

Just to keep folks updated, I activated the first instance of the R.E.T.C.O.N. device in testing today. And second, third, fourth, and fifth instances, to debug stuff. Still at minimum a few weeks before being comfortable announcing the 30-day countdown, and if things go badly it could still be a month or two before the countdown. It is looking like it may arrive before our third anniversary, though.

Nothing substantial to report in specific. Most of the work has been creating new tables, shuffling data around, and putting together all the code to make a retcon process work. Since it's asked a lot, I am in the process of creating lifetime leaderboards for all the current leaderboards in starboard port. I know there's been some talk about the specifics there (Satan, in particular) and nothing's set in stone, but that is coming together reasonably well.

[blackmatter615]

Any chance of one last tea tyme before the countdown starts? I mean only if it wouldnt take away time from making R.E.T.C.O.N. happen sooner....

[Ryme]

More likely right about the start of the countdown, when I have things to say.

[Patojonas]

So I got myself thinking about retcon and came up with this question:

will we be able to keep the talismans we get during the run (more specifically, the class starting one)?

[Ryme]

Yep. Don't see any reason not to.

[Cristiona]

Depends on how you look at it.

Technically, I guess leveling past 100 was a waste of time, but on the other hand, did you have something better to do? I'm sitting here at level 154, with hyperinflated stats (both from playing and from a bug back in early alpha), but I'll still be flushing it all down to dive into the retcon game. While there's no magic button to return yourself to your previous level, there's nothing stopping you from leveling all over again.

(although, you could invent something not only copied from KoL - which I stopped playing cause of huge complexity and boredom)

While things in TH are certainly inspired by KoL, I tend to view retcon (and ascension) as nothing more than the webgame version of "New Game+", so I don't view retcon as KoL's ascension lifted clean. We've also set things up differently, and I like how we've worked out retcon; I think it'll give players more flexibility than they have in KoL.

Will I be able to transmogrify during retcon[?]

If I recall things correctly, you will still be able to transmog during retcon, in the middle of the run if you so choose. The only requirement is that, to initiate another retcon, you have to hit at least level 11. The upshot of this is, if you accidentally retcon into the wrong class, you can fix that easily.

[Strlikecrazy]

Lifetime XP leaderboards and Lifetime S7G victories - are they confirmed or am i being wishful?

Plus, 29 days to go. How cool is that!

[Ryme]

Yeah, anything that's got a current leaderboard has a lifetime one as well.

[Harry Dresden]

Ryme, looks like the retcon counter isn't displaying properly on IE8. It's cutting off a bit of the top and bottom, making it hard to see what the number is. Firefox is fine, and if I remember right from yesterday IE6 is displaying properly, as well.

Edit: Not displaying properly in IE6, either. Curse my bad memory.

[Ryme]

I think you have it right. There are a wide range of things you can choose. Among that wide variety are certain specific combinations of choices that I think will either be popular or will be convenient for the purposes of discussion, and that's where the names come from. The names in and of themselves are meaningless, other than for conversational convenience.