Twilight Forums

A new International House of Auctions has opened, for players to sell their old Wok items for stars.

You can read the game manual page here.

But this feels like a pretty big change to me, so I wanted to touch on some whys.

Why?
There are two big reasons here:

• Several older players had mentioned it would be nice to have a way to sell Wok items for stars in game directly, rather than using a forum thread and the trade system.
• By far the most common complaint I receive from new players is that there’s no way to get old Wok items. I’d like to be able to point them somewhere little more concrete.

Are you reintroducing old items?
Not right now. But one benefit of having a centralized system for this is that I can see why new players aren’t able to get older items.

If they just couldn’t find the items before or didn’t want to talk to people? Problem solved!

But, it’s possible some items are completely unavailable for purchase. If we’re a couple months in and that proves to be the case, I can very slowly list those specific items in the Auction Hall.

Even if I do end up having to do that, there’s one more stopgap planned: if you have the item that I list, you can override the auction by selling it yourself. Which I personally think is a great idea. You can thank Olaf for that.

But none of that’s even coded yet. So don't get too excited either way. Things might just sort themselves out with the new marketplace.

How do the new auctions work?
In practice, it works like proxy bidding except you cut out the middle man and (in my opinion) the stress.

It’s a hidden bidding system where you enter the most you’re willing to pay for it. You end up paying enough to beat the second highest bid (or match the listed minimum bid).

Any extra you bid is refunded at the end. Losing bids are also returned, naturally. The winner gets the amount you actually paid. There aren’t any auction fees or anything like that.

It might take a little getting used to, but I think it’ll end up doing the job pretty well. Obviously, if it doesn’t, I can always make changes.

Everything is sent by in-game messages, so if you’re in an item-restricted run, things will go to Deep Storage. For convenience’s sake, you can list items from Deep Storage as well.

That’s all folks
So, I think that’s all for now. But if you have any questions, feel free to post them here.

Cheers!
Kinak

1 improvement suggestion:

Make it possible, within 5-10 minutes of posting an item and just if no one bid on it yet, to readjust the minimum bid, just in case someone screws up when setting the amount.

(It WILL happen, and then there'll be much whining, weeping and gnashing of teeth )


OR you could add a warning in big bold threatening font, that'll be easier

The warning's in the manual, but... well, you know, manuals. I added it to the listings as well.

There is also a warning/confirmation that should come up if you try to list an item at below its initial Wok price. Which hopefully will catch the most egregious errors.

I don't think take-backsies do what we want them to, though. Well, except providing something to point to when people make mistakes

Cheers!
Kinak

Looks pretty cool, hope it works.

I was reading this here, from the manual:

Sellers can set a minimum bid. If there are no other bidders, the final price will default to that minimum bid.

If no one bids the item is returned to us right? When I was reading this it made me think the system would buy them item, which could be exploited to geat a gazillion silver stars

Also, just curious: is there anything tracking if accounts that shared the same ip are bidding on each other's items?

Mana Yachanichu wrote:Looks pretty cool, hope it works.

Thanks! Me too.

Patojonas wrote:If no one bids the item is returned to us right? When I was reading this it made me think the system would buy them item, which could be exploited to geat a gazillion silver stars

That section might be unclear, but it's talking about the price you end up paying as a buyer. Without a buyer, naturally, nobody's getting any stars.

But you do get your item back. I don't just keep it

Cheers!
Kinak

It would be nice if we could see what prices recent auctions have finished at. Currently, only sellers and winners know.

Olaf wrote:It would be nice if we could see what prices recent auctions have finished at. Currently, only sellers and winners know.

That information is intentionally not visible.

As a runner-up, I don't want to hear "oh, the winner paid one star more than your maximum bid." Because, despite that being the whole point, hearing it is always a kick in the gut.

That said, I had considered a section at the top of the chart for yesterday's auctions and whether they sold. I ended up discarding it as clutter, but I can re-add it if people want.

Cheers!
Kinak

Kinak wrote:As a runner-up, I don't want to hear "oh, the winner paid one star more than your maximum bid." Because, despite that being the whole point, hearing it is always a kick in the gut.

I understand reasons for it staying the way it is, though avoiding hurting people's feelings is a bit iffy.

Maybe an explanation of why I'd like to see them. I have some old iotm's, and would like to buy some less-old iotms. Currently, I have absolutely no idea what either of those are selling for, other than the minimums, which may or may not be getting met. Something's value in stars by itself is also useless; the information important to me is value in relation to other items, so I can't just set a high minumum. If I see I can buy multiple sorta-old iotms with what I can make selling a really-old one, I'll consider selling it. If everything is about the same level, I'll hang onto it. If I have no idea, I'll also hang onto it, because I don't feel like gambling.

Olaf wrote:

Kinak wrote:As a runner-up, I don't want to hear "oh, the winner paid one star more than your maximum bid." Because, despite that being the whole point, hearing it is always a kick in the gut.

I understand reasons for it staying the way it is, though avoiding hurting people's feelings is a bit iffy.

No worries. It's not your job to make sure people's feelings don't get hurt.

But it's my job to make sure the game stays enjoyable. And feelings play into that more than most of us would like to admit.

Olaf wrote:Maybe an explanation of why I'd like to see them. I have some old iotm's, and would like to buy some less-old iotms. Currently, I have absolutely no idea what either of those are selling for, other than the minimums, which may or may not be getting met. Something's value in stars by itself is also useless; the information important to me is value in relation to other items, so I can't just set a high minumum. If I see I can buy multiple sorta-old iotms with what I can make selling a really-old one, I'll consider selling it. If everything is about the same level, I'll hang onto it. If I have no idea, I'll also hang onto it, because I don't feel like gambling.

That does help, thank you.

Some auctions have had multiple competing bids over 20 stars and others have had no bids with a minimum under 10. So, it has been possible to parlay one item into several.

But there isn't nearly enough data yet to determine the average value of any individual item.

Cheers!
Kinak

candy cane 4 Nights Left 10

How did that happen? And who's asking 10 stars for something that's 200 chips in the mall?

xKiv wrote:How did that happen? And who's asking 10 stars for something that's 200 chips in the mall?

It's actually an insanely super bowl. Should be good now, thanks!

Cheers!
Kinak

I bought the LoTR set for 3 stars on each item, it's original price.

Would it be possible to add an option to automatically put the item back with the same base bid for X times if it fails to sell? on the time X+1 it'd be returned to us if it didn't sell. Something like that catalyzer queue

It's becoming boring having to replace the item every 4 days just because it doesn't sell at the price I'm willing to sell. if it weren't for this hassle I'd have put all my iotm for sale in there, now just putting the one I think is most likely to sell.

Note that this would increase the variety of old iotm, at least from my end

I actually spent quite a bit of time considering how to do something like that, but I never came up with a way that really clicked with me.

If I come up with a good way to do it, though, rest assured it'll be added in.

Cheers!
Kinak

Your A.R.F. VIP card sold for 10 silver stars.

I'm so happy I got rid of it for it's original price!

Patojonas wrote:I'm so happy I got rid of it for it's original price!

Poor ARF. So much content, so little love.

Cheers!
Kinak

Oh I love the content, problem with it is had I known it'd generate so many tickets I woudln't have bothered to buy it and just buy the tickets from the mall like everybody else

Also, I still have a bit over 23k tickets no one buys lol

Bought and A.R.F. vip card for 5 silvers lol

As promised, I thought a lot and added two reposting options. I don't think it helps the IHOA to have items endlessly relisted at the same price, though, so that's intentionally not an option.

You can leave it how it is now. Or you can set it up so that your unsuccessful auctions are reposted for one star less minimum bid. Or you can set it up so that they're reposted at the initial Wok price of the item.

All of these are account-level options, because managing it on a per-auction basis ended up being really fiddly. The options should appear whenever you have any auctions up.

Let me know if anyone has any problems.

Cheers!
Kinak

Kinak wrote: I don't think it helps the IHOA to have items endlessly relisted at the same price, though, so that's intentionally not an option.

Patojonas wrote:

Kinak wrote: I don't think it helps the IHOA to have items endlessly relisted at the same price, though, so that's intentionally not an option.

I'll try to include some limited version of the same thing, I just need to figure out how it'll work. Easy stuff first

Cheers!
Kinak

Just to echo what was said above - I'd love to know what sold and for what price and what didn't sell. I've listed lots of things on the mall and successfully sold 2. Have a feeling both were underpriced as they were both placed back on the mall immediately with starting price of 5 stars more than my selling price. It would be very helpful for knowing how much things are worth.

acidcat wrote:Just to echo what was said above - I'd love to know what sold and for what price and what didn't sell. I've listed lots of things on the mall and successfully sold 2. Have a feeling both were underpriced as they were both placed back on the mall immediately with starting price of 5 stars more than my selling price. It would be very helpful for knowing how much things are worth.

I've still been thinking about this. As we approach having enough data to make things meaningful, how would "average price sold" and "average minimum price not met" data do for you?

It'd take a bit of coding on the backend, but I think it would be more useful than feedback on individual auctions.

Cheers!
Kinak

Kinak wrote:

acidcat wrote:Just to echo what was said above - I'd love to know what sold and for what price and what didn't sell. I've listed lots of things on the mall and successfully sold 2. Have a feeling both were underpriced as they were both placed back on the mall immediately with starting price of 5 stars more than my selling price. It would be very helpful for knowing how much things are worth.

I've still been thinking about this. As we approach having enough data to make things meaningful, how would "average price sold" and "average minimum price not met" data do for you?

It'd take a bit of coding on the backend, but I think it would be more useful than feedback on individual auctions.

Cheers!
Kinak

That would be great but thought that would be a lot more difficult to code for you than a straight individual auction list.

acidcat wrote:

Kinak wrote:I've still been thinking about this. As we approach having enough data to make things meaningful, how would "average price sold" and "average minimum price not met" data do for you?

It'd take a bit of coding on the backend, but I think it would be more useful than feedback on individual auctions.

That would be great but thought that would be a lot more difficult to code for you than a straight individual auction list.

A little bit, but I think it'll probably be worth it. I don't have a ton of dev time the next few days, but I'll get working on it.

Cheers!
Kinak

As promised in the previous post, you can now see records of average sold/unsold price on all items that have been listed in the last 90 days.

Hopefully that helps

Cheers!
Kinak

Just seen it, nice

Kinak wrote:

Patojonas wrote:

Kinak wrote: I don't think it helps the IHOA to have items endlessly relisted at the same price, though, so that's intentionally not an option.

I'll try to include some limited version of the same thing, I just need to figure out how it'll work. Easy stuff first

Cheers!
Kinak

How about "repost 5 times with the same price if it doesn't sell, if it fails at the 6th time return?" or something like that?

Patojonas wrote:Just seen it, nice

Glad you like it

Patojonas wrote:How about "repost 5 times with the same price if it doesn't sell, if it fails at the 6th time return?" or something like that?

I've had a 3 strikes version on and off my to-do list for a couple weeks, actually. And I keep finding reasons to do something else because I don't really like it.

It's not because it'll be a pain to code (although it actually would be).

I'm just not really sure it'd be helpful. It would obviously save clicks, but those clicks are there so people can make price changes. I can automate those changes to some degree (like the options I've already added), but I don't think extending the time between decisions necessarily helps.

Cheers!
Kinak

well, it'll help increasing the iotm available at the AH

Not sure if it's appropriate to report this here rather than on the Debugging forums but I had 3 IoTms (Judo kid gloves, Cupid's quiver, Subscriver jacket) in the Auction house, all set with a minimum bid of 20 stars.

The auction ended last night, they were unsold but I did not get the items back, and they did not go back on sale, either.

I don't know what could have caused this. I *DID* change the 'what to do if items are unsold' options several times, but I don't see why would that have caused that.
It's possible I used the newly-added 'put items on sale 3 times' option though, I don't remember.

Do I need to wait an extra rollover before I get my stuff back?

Kurg wrote:Do I need to wait an extra rollover before I get my stuff back?

Nope, you just have to tell me

They didn't get relisted properly under the new option. They should be showing up now.

Cheers!
Kinak

Thanks! Was worried I'd never see these items again.

Kurg wrote:Thanks! Was worried I'd never see these items again.

Sorry for worrying you! Suffice it to say I take people's Items of the Month very seriously

Cheers!
Kinak