Talismans for 2015

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Talismans for 2015

Postby Kinak » Mon Dec 29, 2014 9:00 pm

We’re doing something a bit different with the yearly talismans for 2015.

There was a request a while back for a Wok item that made the game harder instead of easier. There ended up being four instead, inspired by some of the hardest games from our childhood.

These talismans have the usual positive effects, but their negative effect is far more drastic. Enemies gain entirely new talents that… aren’t even a little fair. They might steal your equipment, confuse your sidekick, or shut down an entire strategy.

Why Would I Ever Do That?
Naturally, the jump in difficulty merits some new rewards. The “simplest" is a scoring system for retcons using one of these talismans for the entire run, but there are others hiding out as well.

I, personally, freaking love them because they keep me on my toes.

But that’s not for everyone. If you’re satisfied by the difficulty level of the game or level of focus required by the game, these talismans aren’t a great choice.

What About People in 2016?
There’s also a non-donation talisman that unlocks the new content, although it might take a bit of work to dig up. That will be available stretching into the distant future.

In line with this game mode being an addition beyond just the donation talismans, there may easily be more content or even difficulty adjustments in the future.

Also, if the new approach to talismans is popular, we may see more talismans hitting this theme or similar avenues for added difficulty in the future.

Cheers!
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Re: Talismans for 2015

Postby Valmo » Mon Dec 29, 2014 9:21 pm

I decided to take a look at it before committing to a retcon. All I can say is so far it looks both delightful and unforgiving. Thanks for adding something I didn't know I needed because I am glad it is now here.

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Re: Talismans for 2015

Postby Cristiona » Mon Dec 29, 2014 9:43 pm

Gold Knight keeps returning a broken image for me in the wok. Popup's fine. :?

Yeah, I had a fistfight with myself about the naming. Should be good now. I won.
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Re: Talismans for 2015

Postby Kinak » Mon Dec 29, 2014 9:51 pm

Valmo wrote:I decided to take a look at it before committing to a retcon. All I can say is so far it looks both delightful and unforgiving.
"Delightful and unforgiving" is a great description of what we were going for.

There were definitely times in testing, even as a fully tricked-out character, where fights completely got the better of me. But it's been a long time since I've enjoyed combat that much.

Valmo wrote:Thanks for adding something I didn't know I needed because I am glad it is now here.
You're very welcome :)

Cheers!
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Re: Talismans for 2015

Postby Patojonas » Tue Dec 30, 2014 12:23 pm

Kinak wrote:They might steal your equipment, confuse your sidekick, or shut down an entire strategy.


Will I actually lose equipment? Or they just make us unequip it during the fight?

If I do actually lose equipment, do they also steal iotm?

Are scaling enemies also responsive to these talismans?

Sorry for so many questions:P

Also, like Cris said, image for gold knight bracelet is still broken in the wok page.

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Re: Talismans for 2015

Postby Kinak » Tue Dec 30, 2014 8:11 pm

Patojonas wrote:
Kinak wrote:They might steal your equipment, confuse your sidekick, or shut down an entire strategy.


Will I actually lose equipment? Or they just make us unequip it during the fight?

If I do actually lose equipment, do they also steal iotm?
They can't actually steal donation items, no. As for the rest, what they do is pretty complex and I'm not going to spoil it all here.

Patojonas wrote:Are scaling enemies also responsive to these talismans?
This is sort of an annoying one (the situation, not the question). Most of the scaling fights aren't coded as normal combats, so they won't be effected.

If this causes any problems, I'll have to recode those scaling fights. Which I plan to do at some point (and will fix a bunch of other bugs), but will be a huge pain whenever I end up doing it.

Patojonas wrote:Also, like Cris said, image for gold knight bracelet is still broken in the wok page.
Gah! Sorry about that. Typo and, more importantly, let myself work sleepy and not doublecheck things.

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Re: Talismans for 2015

Postby Patojonas » Wed Dec 31, 2014 12:28 pm

I adventure in the space station so I'm happy they aren't affected, no one wants to fight a prismatic robot lol (impossible fight)

This way villains become useful yet again, glad their disguises also drop the new stuff ;)

Looked around and it looks like there's some terrific retcons to be had :P

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Re: Talismans for 2015

Postby xKiv » Wed Dec 31, 2014 1:09 pm

The ones in ancient crypts (and presumably other oldest-and-strongest-emotion zones) *were* affected. Slap frusion plus two more "harder" modifiers on those, and it can go beyond nintendo hard.

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Re: Talismans for 2015

Postby Kinak » Wed Dec 31, 2014 1:51 pm

Patojonas wrote:I adventure in the space station so I'm happy they aren't affected, no one wants to fight a prismatic robot lol (impossible fight)
Impossible or impossibly awesome? :D

Patojonas wrote:Looked around and it looks like there's some terrific retcons to be had :P
Glad you're enjoying it!

xKiv wrote:The ones in ancient crypts (and presumably other oldest-and-strongest-emotion zones) *were* affected. Slap frusion plus two more "harder" modifiers on those, and it can go beyond nintendo hard.
Yeah, those guys can get pretty darn mean.

And it is intended to effect them, although the Nyarlthotep enemies won't be yet, due to the scaling stuff I mentioned.

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Re: Talismans for 2015

Postby Isladar » Mon Jan 26, 2015 6:55 am

Veteran of the Frog Wars

Score: 33,410
Time Bonus: 5,112 Seconds Remaining 5,112
Pullonium: 50% Contained 25,000
Mettle: 7 Mettle 7000
Total Points: 70,522

I hate Hard Mode the Mick. Thanks Kinak! You're a right bastard. :D

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Re: Talismans for 2015

Postby Kinak » Mon Jan 26, 2015 7:55 am

Isladar wrote:I hate Hard Mode the Mick. Thanks Kinak! You're a right bastard. :D
Congratulations and you'e welcome :D

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Re: Talismans for 2015

Postby Nommy » Tue Jan 27, 2015 5:47 pm

This is the best. I was all "Psh, it's probs not that hard" and then a ghost in the Cannonball Tavern hit me for 468 damage. This talisman will make my getting the Psion skills much more interesting, I love it.

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Re: Talismans for 2015

Postby Kinak » Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:02 am

Nommy wrote:This is the best. I was all "Psh, it's probs not that hard" and then a ghost in the Cannonball Tavern hit me for 468 damage.
Heh heh heh.

Nommy wrote:This talisman will make my getting the Psion skills much more interesting, I love it.
Woo! Glad you're liking it.

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Re: Talismans for 2015

Postby Cristiona » Mon Feb 02, 2015 9:36 pm

Nommy wrote:This is the best. I was all "Psh, it's probs not that hard" and then a ghost in the Cannonball Tavern hit me for 468 damage. This talisman will make my getting the Psion skills much more interesting, I love it.

Did you know there's this thing called "resting" that you can do? It gives you HP and PP for just spending a few minutes! It's amazing!
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Re: Talismans for 2015

Postby Kinak » Tue Feb 03, 2015 8:59 am

Cristiona wrote:Did you know there's this thing called "resting" that you can do? It gives you HP and PP for just spending a few minutes! It's amazing!
Res...ting? Yeah, it's been a while since I've done any of that.

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Re: Talismans for 2015

Postby Nommy » Tue Feb 03, 2015 6:13 pm

I know what you're trying to do, Cris, and it will not work! You cannot stop the Too Hard hype train, it has no brakes!

It really is great, though. I've been using mechanics against some of the enemies that normally don't come up in my runs, these things called "Combat Items" and "Openings" and "The Run Away Button". It's nice to have variance in the fights, and even though the game feels harder, it doesn't seem to take longer to level.

I do have a question, though-Why do the modifiers disappear from baddie names after combat? I'm not saying that this happened to me, but I totally know a guy who knows a guy who keeps getting destroyed by the baddie's first attack and then never getting to see what the modifiers were.
(I tried to tell the guy I know to tell the guy he knows that all you had to do was read the opening fight text for clues, but from what I understand his response was "Reading is haaaaard")

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Re: Talismans for 2015

Postby Kinak » Tue Feb 03, 2015 7:35 pm

Nommy wrote:I know what you're trying to do, Cris, and it will not work! You cannot stop the Too Hard hype train, it has no brakes!

It really is great, though. I've been using mechanics against some of the enemies that normally don't come up in my runs, these things called "Combat Items" and "Openings" and "The Run Away Button". It's nice to have variance in the fights, and even though the game feels harder, it doesn't seem to take longer to level.
Glad you're enjoying it. And sounds like it's working exactly as intended, which is a rare and marvelous thing :D

Nommy wrote:I do have a question, though-Why do the modifiers disappear from baddie names after combat? I'm not saying that this happened to me, but I totally know a guy who knows a guy who keeps getting destroyed by the baddie's first attack and then never getting to see what the modifiers were.
(I tried to tell the guy I know to tell the guy he knows that all you had to do was read the opening fight text for clues, but from what I understand his response was "Reading is haaaaard")
It's because, by the point it's displaying that final image, the modifiers have all been removed. Which is annoying, but I wasn't sure if it was annoying enough to spend the time fixing.

It annoys me a little, though, so if it's also bothering other people, I'll figure out some way to hack around it.

Cheers!
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Re: Talismans for 2015

Postby Cristiona » Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:13 pm

I would just like to add that Ghostly foes suck diseased moose wang.
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Re: Talismans for 2015

Postby Isladar » Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:28 am

Nommy wrote:I do have a question, though-Why do the modifiers disappear from baddie names after combat? I'm not saying that this happened to me, but I totally know a guy who knows a guy who keeps getting destroyed by the baddie's first attack and then never getting to see what the modifiers were.
(I tried to tell the guy I know to tell the guy he knows that all you had to do was read the opening fight text for clues, but from what I understand his response was "Reading is haaaaard")


That's funny, because I totally know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who said the exact same thing. Small world. :D

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Re: Talismans for 2015

Postby xKiv » Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:48 am

I have been wondering one thing (not that it will apply to me anytime soon) ... to be in running for the too hard scoring, when do I need to equip the talisman? Anytime before first patrol?

Kinak wrote:Res...ting?


You are breaking that wrong. It's re-sting.

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Re: Talismans for 2015

Postby Kinak » Wed Feb 04, 2015 10:53 am

xKiv wrote:I have been wondering one thing (not that it will apply to me anytime soon) ... to be in running for the too hard scoring, when do I need to equip the talisman? Anytime before first patrol?
Yeah, you can do your pulls and fiddle with your equipment and stuff first.

It's specifically keyed into in-game time. So once your clock advances the first time, it's too late.

If you're ever unsure, you can equip the talisman. It'll give you a special message if you're in the running. Then, since you're at the very beginning of the run, it shouldn't be too painful to switch back if there was some sort of mistake.

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Re: Talismans for 2015

Postby erfMortium » Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:31 am

Finally defeated Too Hard Mick. Only took me until level 13. Bloody Hell!

As an Elementalist I had The Fire Within maxed, Firestorm maxed, turkey feather wand and other +spell damage. Used a couple of recyclonizer bots and still took a bunch of retries to kill him. I just got lucky with a spell crit after he got angry and survived that round, then he was dead.

Not sure if this is a normal experience but it definitely was impossible for me to kill him at level 11 before the timer ran out. Any tips much appreciated!
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Re: Talismans for 2015

Postby Kinak » Mon Feb 09, 2015 6:00 pm

Okay, modifiers should display on an enemy even after you've killed them. Let me know about any weirdness.

erfMortium wrote:Not sure if this is a normal experience but it definitely was impossible for me to kill him at level 11 before the timer ran out. Any tips much appreciated!
He's definitely a jerk, I'll say that.

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Re: Talismans for 2015

Postby Cristiona » Mon Feb 09, 2015 9:46 pm

"devouring talkative star-crossed lovers"

Seriously? I swear, talkative, frusion, and ghostly are pretty much a guaranteed death, which makes it really annoying when combined with devouring.

Then again, I didn't want those gloves du lac anyway. :cry:
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Re: Talismans for 2015

Postby Isladar » Tue Feb 10, 2015 4:25 am

Don't forget "devouring racing..." You won't die, but your stuff will.

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Re: Talismans for 2015

Postby Cristiona » Thu Feb 12, 2015 9:59 pm

Dear lord, that was awful!

Ran out of time somewhere around level 8. A 12 day, nearly 70 hour, 16 mettle run? 20 hours longer than my last maso run! Burned about three sold hours in-game just fighting the Mick. Over and over and over and over and over again until I finally figured out a way to keep his mad-mode-instant-never-miss-smack from killing me. But then, I guess cheesing the boss has a long history with old school hard games.

Whew. I need a break from all that. Probably one of the most frustrating runs, especially when I'd get strings of talkative and ghostly foes in a row. NCI was probably the worst since it so helpfully shows you your lack of progress.
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Re: Talismans for 2015

Postby Isladar » Fri Feb 13, 2015 10:26 am

Ah, Mad Mick...Good times.

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Re: Talismans for 2015

Postby Kinak » Fri Feb 13, 2015 10:58 am

It's interesting to hear other people's experiences. I'm usually relieved to see ghostly or talkative enemies, but arctic and confusing tend to destroy me. Even cloudy and lava wreck my days sometimes.

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Re: Talismans for 2015

Postby erfMortium » Sat Feb 14, 2015 1:11 am

I find frusion enemies to basically mean run away. You're pretty much likely to die anyway, especially when combined with cloudy.

Ghost enemies mean you're dead, but at least you get XP.
Cloudy tend to be a crapshoot
Lava aren't bad
Racing aren't bad
Respawning aren't bad
Huge aren't bad
Talkative are no bother if you're melee
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Re: Talismans for 2015

Postby Cristiona » Sat Feb 14, 2015 10:26 pm

Well, I was an Elemental, so things that stop spells were murder.

Arctic + Lava was also terrible because of the increased fumble odds.
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Re: Talismans for 2015

Postby Kinak » Sun Feb 15, 2015 7:33 am

Erfmortium wrote:I find frusion enemies to basically mean run away. You're pretty much likely to die anyway, especially when combined with cloudy.
Ah, yeah, frusion + cloudy would be pretty bad. At least the cloudy damage isn't against PP if I remember correctly.

Cristiona wrote:Well, I was an Elemental, so things that stop spells were murder.
Yeah, having to beat things to death isn't where you want to be there.

Cristiona wrote:Arctic + Lava was also terrible because of the increased fumble odds.
Ha! Yeah, I have to admit I just cackle maniacally everytime I see that combo :lol:

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Re: Talismans for 2015

Postby Cristiona » Sun Feb 15, 2015 10:19 pm

All I can think is that Arctic will be wonderful as a Gadgeteer with max Self Balancing...
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