Class Sidekick Skills

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Lxndr
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Class Sidekick Skills

Postby Lxndr » Sun Oct 06, 2013 2:34 pm

There are, at last count, four class sidekick skills:

Summon Water Sprite
Summon Water Buffalo
Summon Wolf
Wind Warrior

(why the Wind Warrior doesn't get 'Summon' in front of it, I'm not sure)

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three of these do mainly the same thing: physical damage at different rates. But since the sidekick slot can only be occupied by one thing at a time, anyone who has access to these skills are very likely to only choose the one that does the one thing it does the 'best'. So, barring certain Retcon paths (anything skill-restricted) what are the uses of these skills?

Water Buffalo does: 6-(6+X) + X + floor(level/6) or 12-18 + 2X + floor(level/5)
Wolf does: does 4-8 + X + floor(level/5)
Wind Warrior does: does 3-5 + X + round(level/3)

then the one special one:
Water Sprite does: A) 4-8 + (X-2X) + floor(level/5) ice damage, or B) delevels by 3-5 + X

so obviously, there's a reasonable choice between Water Sprite and Water Buffalo.

but what are the points of Wolf and Wind Warrior in an all-skill situation? What reason would one choose to have Wolf or Wind Warrior if they have Water Sprite or Water Buffalo available to them?

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The three physical damage class-sidekicks were created as skills before the sidekick system was initiated, when they were simple buffs. I remember that we used to use them side-by-side until Sidekicks were initiated, and they clearly were designed with the thought of being used along side each other.

I think it's time to revisit these skills.

NO skill should, when permed, completely invalidate other skills.

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My suggestion is to return Wolf and Wind Warrior to buff status. Make them NOT be sidekicks anymore. Maybe revisit their damage numbers. Rename Wolf to drop 'Summon' from it, so 'Summon' can easily signify companions vs. buffs. Call it maybe Spirit Wolf.

That puts the remaining two class sidekicks (Water Buffalo and Water Sprite) on a better, more even, playing field.
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Patojonas
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Re: Class Sidekick Skills

Postby Patojonas » Sun Oct 06, 2013 3:57 pm

Fun fact: they all have names started with a W

Anyways, them being buffs predates me, but it is a fact the buffalo makes the wolf useless. Then again it comes at an earlier level so shoulnd't be stronger. But it can be good in a different perspective like the bite numbing the foe a bit (minor deleveling effect)

Another way of improving the wolf would be making it stronger on Moondays. The days of the week need more exclusive stuff. (and since we're at it make the aardwolf stronger on moondays as well, possibly with a drop exclusive to that day.)

Spoiler: show
Going off topic a bit, but since I mentioned the days, I had an idea of a shooting star's gazing noncombat in the desert only on Starsdays. Usually giving xp for the experience and a low chance of meteor actually falling. Could be a nice way of introducing a new metal or it could contain a Venom sort of lifeform, starting a personal quest of sorts lol)

Lxndr
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Re: Class Sidekick Skills

Postby Lxndr » Sun Oct 06, 2013 4:16 pm

I like your day-specific stuff! But I'm going to stay on target...

Patojonas wrote:Fun fact: they all have names started with a W


yep! :D

Anyways, them being buffs predates me, but it is a fact the buffalo makes the wolf useless. Then again it comes at an earlier level so shoulnd't be stronger. But it can be good in a different perspective like the bite numbing the foe a bit (minor deleveling effect)


Honestly, in a game where when a skill comes in a level eventually doesn't matter - due to making things permanent - that shouldn't be a consideration for this. YES, it should be weaker than any skills that come after it. That makes sense.

But I don't think that invalidates my initial point: skills should not completely invalidate other skills. No skill BESIDES the sidekick skills completely invalidate each other.

Turning Summon Wolf and Wind Walker back into ordinary buffs would resolve this problem (revisiting their damage as well).
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Cristiona
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Re: Class Sidekick Skills

Postby Cristiona » Sun Oct 06, 2013 8:04 pm

Lxndr wrote:What reason would one choose to have Wolf or Wind Warrior if they have Water Sprite or Water Buffalo available to them?

Cost?

Going over temporary sidekicks is a big project we intend to tackle at some point. Addressing the skill-summoned ones seems reasonable.
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Kinak
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Re: Class Sidekick Skills

Postby Kinak » Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:39 am

Lxndr wrote:But I don't think that invalidates my initial point: skills should not completely invalidate other skills. No skill BESIDES the sidekick skills completely invalidate each other.
A lot of skills are invalidated in everything but cost. The psychic damage spells are the most obvious example.

That said, there's a lot of difference in paying a few extra PP several times a combat and paying a few extra PP every several turns. So it's probably closer to being strictly better here.

Cristiona wrote:Going over temporary sidekicks is a big project we intend to tackle at some point. Addressing the skill-summoned ones seems reasonable.
Was actually scrolling down to say just this. Thanks Cristiona :)

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Patojonas
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Re: Class Sidekick Skills

Postby Patojonas » Fri Oct 11, 2013 11:42 am

*points at his day related content ideas everyone seems to have overlooked :cry: *

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Kinak
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Re: Class Sidekick Skills

Postby Kinak » Fri Oct 11, 2013 12:09 pm

Patojonas wrote:*points at his day related content ideas everyone seems to have overlooked :cry: *
Well, not so much "overlooked" as "tucked away."

I'm always up for more mechanics references the day or, even more, time. It's just a little tricky with days because the having something be substantially better on a certain day is cool, but having a certain day be substantially better isn't cool... if that makes sense.

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Patojonas
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Re: Class Sidekick Skills

Postby Patojonas » Fri Oct 11, 2013 6:15 pm

I see your point, but as long as something else is added for every other day it becomes balanced.

Anyway, the idea is to create something day related to look forward to in a very short time, other than Frayday which is the only daily feature anyone cares about (which makes Frayday the best day :roll: )

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Kinak
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Re: Class Sidekick Skills

Postby Kinak » Sun Oct 13, 2013 8:51 am

Patojonas wrote:Anyway, the idea is to create something day related to look forward to in a very short time, other than Frayday which is the only daily feature anyone cares about (which makes Frayday the best day :roll: )
True enough.

It's just something I'm leery of doing in general. Obviously, with Frayday already there we have more leeway with other days.

Cheers!
Kinak


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