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 Post subject: Code can be "decrypted"
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 5:40 am 
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Just saw the new "improvement".

I have to say it is a disappointment.

Why?

Because it's like cheating, if you aren't pleased with what chance got you you just keep pushing until it bends to your will. In life you get what you get and thats something I liked about TH, the chance factor.

To me it is just the last of a series of modifications to please people who retcon, and who want to do it as fast as possible and the only thing preventing them from going faster is chance. And although I have nothing against them or retcon itself I don't think the game should be made easier (easier as in depending less on chance) just to please them.

Hope I haven't offended anyone, but I had to say it.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 6:21 am 
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I guess I can understand that feeling. As someone who already thinks runs are way too fast (I'd love it if 1 day runs were not even possible), I'm not sure this will really speed things up very much for the speed runners. The only software I ever use in a run is Personal Copy of the Internet and Vlad's, although I'm sure the +non-combat and +combat stuff would be handy for others.

In runs with limited or no pulls, this will probably be a much larger factor. But you have to remember that they still have to waste another 30+ minutes decrypting the code to try and get what they want. Unless I'm understanding the concept wrong, there is still a large amount of chance on what they get out of that code and so the odds are still in favor of getting a code you didn't want.

Personally, I just see this as a way to spend less time farming up mangled data plates on Jetpack, since I can't buy the cheap ones in the mall that my main and other alt sell.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 6:32 am 
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Patojonas wrote:
Hope I haven't offended anyone, but I had to say it.


Offended, no. Surprised? Yes. Didn't expect that reaction. Certainly not as the first comment about the change. I saw it mostly as smoothing out a rough edge where randomness can be a really weird sticking point for players. Not just retcon, but also newbies who don't have much +item in the first place and struggle to piece together a computer or make software, because the process has so many steps and so much dependence on luck.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:33 am 
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I can see where it can be annoying for new players but thats how chance works.

If I don't win today's lottery I'll have to try next week right? With this it's as if I can replay today's draw until I win. Just doesn't seem right to me.

Besides, it doesn't make much sense. You can make orange juice out of apples, but I doubt you can make pineapple juice out of orange juice. Its like picking a book about gardening and somehow turn it into a book about engineering. Unless, of course, you have magical powers involved, but I doubt the computers qualify for that....

Anyway, thats just how I see it...


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:23 am 
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Code is not like apples, oranges, and pineapples. You can swap around statements, edit them, etc. and it creates a different program.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:08 pm 
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Harry Dresden wrote:
In runs with limited or no pulls, this will probably be a much larger factor.
No-items are about the only runs that would be using this. Anyone else can just pull the software they need.

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But you have to remember that they still have to waste another 30+ minutes decrypting the code to try and get what they want.
Non-issue. If the only things I can make are SMART and ASX, I won't be using the computers for anything, so extra decrypting is hardly keeping me from doing anything. This is just reducing some RNG screw for no-items players.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 1:33 am 
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Harry Dresden wrote:
But you have to remember that they still have to waste another 30+ minutes decrypting the code to try and get what they want. Unless I'm understanding the concept wrong, there is still a large amount of chance on what they get out of that code and so the odds are still in favor of getting a code you didn't want.


As far as I can see to decrypt code it is faster - only 15 minutes. Also there is no randomness, what each code turns into is cyclical like using schrodingers box on talismans - e.g. financial code always gets turned into signal processing code.

And although I'm benefitting from it by using up all these unwanted financial codes, I also feel that this upgrade feels like cheating and makes it too easy. Just like you can't choose what comes out of backpacks or smugglers boxes. Just my opinion.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:17 am 
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Perhaps, but let's compare:

Backpacks can drop chips, +Ref item, +PP item, or +HP item; or some combination thereof.
Smuggler's box can drop 3-6 of three items.

The usefulness of the smuggler's box in general is pretty limited. One's good for a teardrop gem, and the other for a sugar. With a backpack, most anything's useful, unless you only get the soles and even then, you'll still get some chips.

Now, a mangled data plate, has a chance of turning into one of five different codes, and most of the retcon-useful programs require the City Map Code (Giganto, iMyself, MacRuff's, Garcia's). Furthermore, if you want to make a specific program, you need to get both codes. While a backpack giving soles instead of firewater sucks, you can sell the soles and buy a power stick. On the other hand, if you had a run where you got 5 financial spreadsheets and nothing else (and yes, I've had this happen), you're stuck. You can't do anything with those codes. You can't even combine them into a program you don't care about.

Personally, I love this change. Not only does it smooth out RNG screw in getting codes, but it allows me to make programs that'll allow me to smooth out RNG screw in the rest of the game.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 7:33 am 
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wow, I'm kind of surprises at the negative comments. Anything that reduce RNG screw is fine by me.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 11:35 am 
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I don't do no item runs (yet?), but I can see I'd gladly do even 80 minutes of decrypting (4 cycles if you start with the worst code) and be 100% certain I get the code I need, than playing the RNG game for 45 minutes. Less RNG = Good, at least in my book.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 7:44 pm 
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Thanks for the update. I prefer this to be a game of skill and strategy, not just blind luck.

Once, when I was trying new strategies, I used an entire day's worth of turns to get one city map code.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:32 pm 
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Cristiona wrote:
Harry Dresden wrote:
In runs with limited or no pulls, this will probably be a much larger factor.
No-items are about the only runs that would be using this. Anyone else can just pull the software they need.

This. My main does min pulls, and even getting even 2 data plates to mangle is not a sure thing. Now, lucking out and getting those two mean I get a Garcia's a day early and have a pull freed up for tomorrow. And post-retcon, I can now refine the pile of otherwise worthless code I've built up into software I want to pull should I strike out in the future.

My multi does no-pull runs, and I gotta say this has helped out a lot. Solitude usually ends up with a bunch of extra mangled plates because he's got to farm for the computer, but actually getting anything worthwhile out of that mess was very much a crapshoot even with +10 plates. The situation becomes more frustrating when after struggling to get that last memory tube from the robots, I get a couple more in the Casino and end up with enough parts to build a second computer... but have nothing to run on the first, let alone a second. Garcia's is particularly welcome here, because -combat is so hard to come across in no-pulls.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:19 am 
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here's my biggest "complaint" - in the drop down list, the codes come BEFORE the swipe key, so I have to scroll down to get to the swipe key.
Other than that, good job.

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