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Poll Added as afterthought
# of Days 62%  62%  [ 13 ]
Time Spent 38%  38%  [ 8 ]
Total votes : 21
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 Post subject: Re: Fastest Retcon Time
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:15 am 
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Ok, but even if you say they should be allowed, they /shouldn't/ be in any sort of competitive board. It's just not worthy of being on a board because it's so simple to do.

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 Post subject: Re: Fastest Retcon Time
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:40 am 
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the SUPERnaturalist wrote:
put up or shut up" isn't a nice thing to say


It is when one person keeps going on and on about how "easy" it would be to replicate the run, without actually putting forward any facts to substantiate it. I can say from personal experience that one of my alts has spent >1000 turns in the Neighboring and Neighborly Neighborhood and has only scrounged up 65 of the Forgotten Etiquette disks. Since you need about 300 of them to get to level 5 so that you can use other discs, it's safe to say it will take weeks/months to farm up enough disks to get to even level 9.


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 Post subject: Re: Fastest Retcon Time
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:30 pm 
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According to the wiki, the forgotten etiquette disc is about 75% drop. If you use the attache case, that's 100% right there. Your only limitation is getting the elderly lady - granted I don't know what her rate is, but... There are 4 combats, 2 non-combats, and a static villain. Villains should be off, so if you get combat, it's a probably a 25% chance from there, so just buff up combat. So you should end up getting between 200-250 for 1000 turns. 219 is the minimum you need if you get full output from the disc using cephalopod, 450 is the max, to get from 50 xp to level 5. But if one was smart, they would actually start using turns and only use the forbidden etiquette when they had finished all the quests and were xp grinding, since that means they need less of the least efficient discs. You only need between 50-70 of the other discs for level 5, 6, 7, 8. Granted those drop at a lower rate, but I'm sure it won't be so terrible after the attache case, max combat, and some +items.

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 Post subject: Re: Fastest Retcon Time
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:42 pm 
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72%, based off 33 encounters. Dont trust that number.

Furthermore, Its not necessary to start quests before using all the squid discs, because having the ability to wear sneakiers could maximize the noncombat rate (rolled doll, garcia, sneakiers, stealth for non-Iotm). For super speed runners, every second will count and having 4 minute turns from the get go is almost impossible without leveling. Yes, if you want to get close to val and zillow's times you will need this. I really am intrigued to see what satan would get for a run like this, because it seems like he wouldnt make optimal decisions to me.

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 Post subject: Re: Fastest Retcon Time
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:04 pm 
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Rolled dahl doll, seeking solitude, inky as mother night, mummer's gloves. That's how I would do it - if I had stealth and mental magnetism permed, I could switch over from inky as mother night once I had a decent supply of PP. I would probably level up from 1 to 2, since it's only 50 xp, and then start the quests.

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 Post subject: Re: Fastest Retcon Time
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:08 pm 
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Doc Igor wrote:
Then you'd totally NOT have a good run time. Your turns would be WAY too long.
Silly Doc. Satan clearly knows everything. That's why he's done so many one-day runs already.

Oh, wait... he hasn't done anything aside from make noise. Nevermind.

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 Post subject: Re: Fastest Retcon Time
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:24 pm 
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I've said from the start I don't /want/ to do these runs. I don't think there's any point to them in and of themselves. I'm going to do one after the current maso run, because you all think it's so difficult. I'm simply going to prove that's not true. I'll let you all know when I begin farming for this run, how long it takes me to get the materials, how much of the materials I actually end up using, how much time I spent waiting for RNG, and how difficult it was. Until then, could you for once pay attention to what I'm saying, instead of turning around and immediately saying something in direct contrast with what I just said in a snarky manner because you have nothing better to do with your time?

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 Post subject: Re: Fastest Retcon Time
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:51 pm 
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Don't make me lock this thread, you grumpy grumpers.


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 Post subject: Re: Fastest Retcon Time
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:58 pm 
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Doc Igor wrote:
Satan wrote:
According to the wiki, the forgotten etiquette disc is about 75% drop. If you use the attache case, that's 100% right there. Your only limitation is getting the elderly lady - granted I don't know what her rate is, but...


I've been collecting about 45/day, with maxed out +combat. It's ~200turns/day... (most recent day, 25/200 were non-com... 43 SQUID from 43 old ladies.)


Then yeah, assuming those rates are about right, 5*45 = 225, which is the exact mid-point of the range I was expecting.

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 Post subject: Re: Fastest Retcon Time
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:52 pm 
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Dyynamo wrote:
I think there are several ways of doing this type of run that would be pretty simple...just very tedious and time-consuming. Farm tons and tons of SQUID discs, RETCON, use 'em on a Frayday, and get to level 30 without using a single turn. That'd grant a lot of turns to be used. Valera's method may have been far different, though. It could be extremely complex. Or not. We'd have to know what she did and I don't think she'll be willing to give out her secrets (and for good reason, too. A good magician never reveals his tricks, etc).

That said, though...

Even if they are simple, there's no reason to not let them on the boards other than because some people don't want to have to compete with them.


No, that was Valera's exact method (although it was probably a combination of SQUID and CTHULHU discs). And my point is that people can't compete with them without doing the same type of run, and even then, the large majority of the runtime is based on RNG from waiting on quest non-coms to show up. It's much more based on RNG than skill, which I think necessarily means it shouldn't be the only way currently known to get a 1 day run. Honestly, given the current setup of the game, I don't think it's possible to do even a 2 day run without being extremely lucky. (The only person to do a 2-day run was Zillow, using a similar method involving lots of SQUID discs)

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 Post subject: Re: Fastest Retcon Time
PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 4:14 am 
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Satan wrote:
Dyynamo wrote:
I think there are several ways of doing this type of run that would be pretty simple...just very tedious and time-consuming. Farm tons and tons of SQUID discs, RETCON, use 'em on a Frayday, and get to level 30 without using a single turn. That'd grant a lot of turns to be used. Valera's method may have been far different, though. It could be extremely complex. Or not. We'd have to know what she did and I don't think she'll be willing to give out her secrets (and for good reason, too. A good magician never reveals his tricks, etc).

That said, though...

Even if they are simple, there's no reason to not let them on the boards other than because some people don't want to have to compete with them.


No, that was Valera's exact method (although it was probably a combination of SQUID and CTHULHU discs). And my point is that people can't compete with them without doing the same type of run, and even then, the large majority of the runtime is based on RNG from waiting on quest non-coms to show up. It's much more based on RNG than skill, which I think necessarily means it shouldn't be the only way currently known to get a 1 day run. Honestly, given the current setup of the game, I don't think it's possible to do even a 2 day run without being extremely lucky. (The only person to do a 2-day run was Zillow, using a similar method involving lots of SQUID discs)


I'm planning on a 2 day run - using no more than 50 forgotten etiquette's. Why? I believe a two day run is do-able without using tons of squid discs. With the items i have and with the skills im going to perm, it's possible to to max Non combats or combats with only one item having to be worn. That means more items for -time, FT or XP. Based on some calculations, it's possible to get Foe base XP with + 86% XP and from FT and +XP, a bonus of between 77-137XP. That means the bayside would give the same XP as Triassic park does without bonuses. The only downside is this system would require tons of TNT.

In conclusion, i don't think it's possible to do a 2 day run without someone calling you a cheater for using SD's, TNT, IOTMS etc... :D

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 Post subject: Re: Fastest Retcon Time
PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:57 am 
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Satan wrote:
(The only person to do a 2-day run was Zillow, using a similar method involving lots of SQUID discs)

Now you're just pulling stuff out of your ass. Next time you are going to try and state a fact actually verify that it is true.

Also if you actually looked at the wiki drop rate for the Forgotten Etiquette Jesus fought 33 Surly bowlers and got 24 discs, that is nowhere near spaded, and it even says 72.7 ± 15.5%. + or - 15%! And you just automatically assume its 75% no evidence at all.

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 Post subject: Re: Fastest Retcon Time
PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:45 am 
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Doc Igor wrote:
Remember to get the level 2 quest early on... it doesn't cost any time to get the quest, and you can go directly to the pizza place and take down the boss on either the end of the first day, or on the second day.


Not entirely true. You do have to at least get the first non-com in Cannonball before being able to fight Steele.


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 Post subject: Re: Fastest Retcon Time
PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 3:23 pm 
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zillow wrote:
Satan wrote:
(The only person to do a 2-day run was Zillow, using a similar method involving lots of SQUID discs)

Now you're just pulling stuff out of your ass. Next time you are going to try and state a fact actually verify that it is true.

Also if you actually looked at the wiki drop rate for the Forgotten Etiquette Jesus fought 33 Surly bowlers and got 24 discs, that is nowhere near spaded, and it even says 72.7 ± 15.5%. + or - 15%! And you just automatically assume its 75% no evidence at all.


Forgive me if I was wrong, but I was under that impression. Ryme had mentioned you had done lots of these in testing, and would have done one if not for time constraints IRL, when Val did hers. I assumed you had finally gotten around to doing one, and for some reason I recall it being brought up in chat that you did use SQUID discs. If SQUID discs weren't involved, I'd really like to know how you did it.

As for the drop rate on the disc, I had already assumed it was a fairly high drop rate from previous experience. The thing almost always drops for me, so it's not hard to believe that it's 75%. I mean, come on, 24/33 looks to be a fairly high drop rate regardless of RNG swing, yeah? Seriously...

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