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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 3:33 pm 
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Hey, guys. I'm finding myself with a shoe situated firmly on the other foot of my turned tables, here, and I'm trying to get better retcon speeds without really knowing what I'm doing.

I've been spending a lot of time with the wiki, but I'm wondering if there are some basic things I'm neglecting.

I'm planning on leveling my current Gadgeteer for a couple or three days after this run ends to farm some stuff (rolled doll dahl, the bits to make a few copies of Garcia's are what's on my agenda so far.) Are there any other go-to pulls I should be farming?

I've been doing 5-pull/no sugar runs, mostly because it's a cheap way of getting extra Mettle and I have no idea what to pull or what sugar is available/decent. I keep getting within 10-12 turns of a 6-day run, so even basic sugar would potentially push me over that brink, but I have no idea what's decent AND readily available to farm.

My approach to perms has been to keep retconning Gadgeteer and getting as many of the combat passive ones as I can, because I'm working under the assumption that this will be the most effortless way for me to handle more +foe level in the future. Is this dumb?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 3:50 pm 
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Passives are awesome so I think you are doing great for perms.

As for items, villain items are generally really good (like the Rolled Doll Dahl you mentioned)

Make sure you pull 2 positronic computers early on to help with the Casino quest and any software you will use. I would suggest spending the time to get the Personal Copy of the Internet because it gives some foe toughness (translating into xp) and sometimes extra xp at the end of combat. (And when you end a run switch your posi's out with electronics so you dont lose them)

There isn't really any good sugar for low pull runs because you would want a sugar that gives max points and has low level req so you save pulls for other items and there aren't any low level sugars that meet those reqs, so in my opinion you should stick with your current run types.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 4:09 pm 
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I'd also recommend farming up some good delever/stun combat items for the Mick fight. Preferably, find someone with a Recyclonizer to make TNT for you between runs.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 4:14 pm 
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I have a Recyclonizer.

With Gadgeteers, I haven't had any problem beating The Mick just by spamming regular attacks.

My first run, which was Elementalist, I had to level to 12 to get that level's combat skill to even have a chance...


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 5:25 pm 
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Just an fyi recyclonizers can't be used in run

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 6:26 pm 
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Only in an all items run.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 7:59 pm 
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Well, he could preproduce the sugar substitute.

Also, it's not completely true that there's no sugar in retcon zones. Casino has the guard which drops Snackers which is the same as a gumball. Protest drops fliers and if you get enough, you can combine them into a pinata which you combine with a peacekeeping baton to get more sugar (same as eyeballs). Branching out a little, the Docks can be used for post-quest leveling and generate jawbruisers. Likewise, the rooftops can be used for leveling and provide IQ120's, which are about as good as it gets. And there's always Nocturne sugar (limited to 3, though, and ruins the point of getting extra mettle). Beyond that, you're pretty much going to need to waste pulls or settle for subpar sugar.

Honestly, if you're only a handful of turns shy, sources of +non-combat and making sure you use the best possible caffeine will probably serve you better. If you're going to spend the time post-run farming, I would into Exigen-C Cocktails for levels 7+. It'll take trading or some work and reputation manipulation, but you're not going to any better.

One last comment about sugar, if you want to play with it, consider that Halloween is coming up...

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 10:53 pm 
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Well, it probably wouldn't hurt to look into sugar and see about sprinkling more of it around. The biggest problem with the gum machine is the low chance of eyeballs.

Actually, sugar's a little underpowered.

Looking at caffeine, on average, every single source is going to be equal or better than Naturally Hyper. Even the absolute worst caffeine, Brad Energy Drink, will average 60 minutes. The horrid caffeine from Jitterspout will average two hours.

Sadly, the candy you're most likely to run across in a no-item run will only average 30 minutes :(

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 2:45 am 
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Jick wrote:
My first run, which was Elementalist, I had to level to 12 to get that level's combat skill to even have a chance...


Tornado is more powerful in my opinion. Max out tornado, and if you get 5 or 6 shots on the Mick, he can't hit you. Then just ice bolt him to death! :D
I think it was Zillow who mentioned it, but Passive skills and are awesome, as are buffs.

Something like Proper Hydration (+PP) benefits every class. More PP for spell classes allows big damage from powerful spells. As a gadgeteer or Naturalist, that equals powerful buffs (or combat skills).

If you fancy plugging Skill Points into it, Meditation can give an extra 30 minutes per day. It depends wheter you see that as worth perming it and spending the SP, but that could work out our a 6 day run as an extra 40 turns. Considering you are falling 10-12 turns of completing a 6 day run, that *could* benefit you.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 1:18 pm 
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I was having some trouble with the Mick fight today, and Zillow pointed out how valuable the Medevac chopper's air rescue action is in that fight. Boy, howdy.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 1:46 pm 
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What are you consuming during the run? I'm doing similar runs (some pulls, sugarless), and I've been working under a basic assumption of 2 brays / day starting on day 2 (they generate a lot of turns, and aren't difficult to farm in aftercore), then I've been trying to find ways to replace some brays with other stuff not requiring pulls (to be able to pull other stuff) without hurting turn generation too much. I think it's working fairly well.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 10:27 am 
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if you have a kilt, use it when you're looking for a boss so you dont waste turns on the small fry. that's basically your ~15 turns extra right there.

(though personally I have no idea why ryme made bossfights so subsceptible to rng swing)

what are you using your foils on? if you dont have an iotm for that equipment slot foil items are very good considering their relatively low level requirements.

or maybe consider pulling an armored pegasus, if you're not missing the hp from the medevac chopper (but really though for most of your purposes paradime device is even better than the chopper, except for as you said in bossfights)

also what skills are you leveling?

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 11:49 am 
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Armored pegasus has a level 12 requirement, so not really usable unless you can't finish the Mick off at level 11 for some reason.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:33 pm 
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whoops heheh.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:30 pm 
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Here's what I've got to say on the subject.

Although I have a ridiculous list of items to pull from, so there might be a dozen people who can take the approach I'm describing. It's hard to think of non-IotM substitutes for some things, but the general idea is +XP, +FT, +noncombat.

Sugar is pretty ineffective, even if you don't have to go out of your way to farm it -- I've been living out of Sacks of Loot (I happen to have enough to get my fill of sugar every day), and to compare...
Some pulls, class skills, no food, sidekick at 9 -- I can do in 7 days
Some pulls, no skills, sugar, sidekick from the start -- is going to take 6 days

It's just not that big of a difference, and personally I think it's more fun to play with those permed skills.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:39 pm 
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That's a pretty good list, but some thoughts:

If you're fighting way above your level, and have donation items, consider the Mask of Odysseus (for +items and getting the jump when you lose init) and the Stainless Steelbreaker (for chance of blocking).

That aside, even if you don't have donation items, it'll be worth it to seek out some of the Data gear, either the gear itself of mass-purchases of ARF passes (which are usually cheap):

Datashirt: improved computer interaction.
Datagloves: chance to stun; handy for bosses.
Datapants: +XP and -time. At level 6.
Databelt: HP and PP regen.

For vehicle, it's also worth considering the tri-cycle for the +10 offense and defense.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:34 pm 
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I'm suprised nobody has mentioned it yet - but the Metal Medals and derivatives are all free pulls. The supersolid gives +8 to all stats, has no level requirement - and did I mention it's a free pull.

The level 7 quest tailsman (if I have it already) is always one of my first pulls. No level restriction, and if you switch to it right away there is very little experience lost. The tricycle others have mentioned already - bonuses to offense and defense which are great early, and not useless later on too.

Getting the harbor pearl by the time you get the under bay quest is handy. (unless you're an elementalist, in which case it's not needed). The sub-ma-car is an alternative if you have a strong off-hand item.

In terms of weapons, for ranged I start with whatever I can get - then if reflexes>strength, I go with epetomious nail gun (lvl 2 easier bought than pulled), Ball bearing cannon (lvl 3), recoil foil rifle (lvl 5 - good bonuses to hit and to dodge), and The golem's glock (lvl 8 - bonus to hit, bonus damage, extra shot).

For strength> reflexes, there's the digital rapier (lvl 3, bonus to hit and to initiative), the foil foil (lvl 4, bonus to hit and dodge), (I don't have a mighty quill yet, but that looks promising for lvl 5), and I'm still working out the rest on melee.


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