Twilight Forums

Hey, guys. I'm finding myself with a shoe situated firmly on the other foot of my turned tables, here, and I'm trying to get better retcon speeds without really knowing what I'm doing.

I've been spending a lot of time with the wiki, but I'm wondering if there are some basic things I'm neglecting.

I'm planning on leveling my current Gadgeteer for a couple or three days after this run ends to farm some stuff (rolled doll dahl, the bits to make a few copies of Garcia's are what's on my agenda so far.) Are there any other go-to pulls I should be farming?

I've been doing 5-pull/no sugar runs, mostly because it's a cheap way of getting extra Mettle and I have no idea what to pull or what sugar is available/decent. I keep getting within 10-12 turns of a 6-day run, so even basic sugar would potentially push me over that brink, but I have no idea what's decent AND readily available to farm.

My approach to perms has been to keep retconning Gadgeteer and getting as many of the combat passive ones as I can, because I'm working under the assumption that this will be the most effortless way for me to handle more +foe level in the future. Is this dumb?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Passives are awesome so I think you are doing great for perms.

As for items, villain items are generally really good (like the Rolled Doll Dahl you mentioned)

Make sure you pull 2 positronic computers early on to help with the Casino quest and any software you will use. I would suggest spending the time to get the Personal Copy of the Internet because it gives some foe toughness (translating into xp) and sometimes extra xp at the end of combat. (And when you end a run switch your posi's out with electronics so you dont lose them)

There isn't really any good sugar for low pull runs because you would want a sugar that gives max points and has low level req so you save pulls for other items and there aren't any low level sugars that meet those reqs, so in my opinion you should stick with your current run types.

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I'd also recommend farming up some good delever/stun combat items for the Mick fight. Preferably, find someone with a Recyclonizer to make TNT for you between runs.

I have a Recyclonizer.

With Gadgeteers, I haven't had any problem beating The Mick just by spamming regular attacks.

My first run, which was Elementalist, I had to level to 12 to get that level's combat skill to even have a chance...

Since you have a Recyclonizer, you'd probably do well just dumping as much junk as you can into it for sugar. There really is no other retcon-relevant way to farm better sugar. I wish there were some other kinds of sugar that drop in retcon zones, because right now those of us without Recyclonizers are probably either pulling sugar or just buying eyeball gumballs.

It seems like retcon speed is just determined by maximizing +XP, using combat rate modifiers, and time reducers. Unlike KoL, item drop does not seem very important, except as a way to get more chips. Of course I'm speaking in the context of a run with 5 or 10 pulls per day when I say that. Rolled doll is a very good thing to have... at least I guess so, depending on how many of the quest noncombats are actually affected by combat rate modifiers. At the very least it makes the Cube Theater better for leveling. You might want to pull sneakiers as well. I've even pulled some squidopus ink for extra +noncom. Of course that was because I was doing a naturally hyper run with 10 pulls/day, so I had a lot of extra pulls.

Just an fyi recyclonizers can't be used in run

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Only in an all items run.

Well, he could preproduce the sugar substitute.

Also, it's not completely true that there's no sugar in retcon zones. Casino has the guard which drops Snackers which is the same as a gumball. Protest drops fliers and if you get enough, you can combine them into a pinata which you combine with a peacekeeping baton to get more sugar (same as eyeballs). Branching out a little, the Docks can be used for post-quest leveling and generate jawbruisers. Likewise, the rooftops can be used for leveling and provide IQ120's, which are about as good as it gets. And there's always Nocturne sugar (limited to 3, though, and ruins the point of getting extra mettle). Beyond that, you're pretty much going to need to waste pulls or settle for subpar sugar.

Honestly, if you're only a handful of turns shy, sources of +non-combat and making sure you use the best possible caffeine will probably serve you better. If you're going to spend the time post-run farming, I would into Exigen-C Cocktails for levels 7+. It'll take trading or some work and reputation manipulation, but you're not going to any better.

One last comment about sugar, if you want to play with it, consider that Halloween is coming up...

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The churches are empty / The priest has gone home / And we are left standing / Together alone
--October Project: "Dark Time"

Oh, OK, well I don't feel that bad about not having one then.

Regarding sugar, yeah, there are IQ120s, and I have played with leveling on the rooftops in the middle of a run. Of course, you're not too likely to get many to drop. And yeah, there are those other drops, but since they're the same as eyeballs, it really doesn't matter whether they drop or not, beyond saving you a few chips gambling at the gumball machine. I suppose that's fine, although I think it would be more interesting if there were more opportunities to get good sugar in run, at a cost.

Well, it probably wouldn't hurt to look into sugar and see about sprinkling more of it around. The biggest problem with the gum machine is the low chance of eyeballs.

Actually, sugar's a little underpowered.

Looking at caffeine, on average, every single source is going to be equal or better than Naturally Hyper. Even the absolute worst caffeine, Brad Energy Drink, will average 60 minutes. The horrid caffeine from Jitterspout will average two hours.

Sadly, the candy you're most likely to run across in a no-item run will only average 30 minutes

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The churches are empty / The priest has gone home / And we are left standing / Together alone
--October Project: "Dark Time"

Tornado is more powerful in my opinion. Max out tornado, and if you get 5 or 6 shots on the Mick, he can't hit you. Then just ice bolt him to death!
I think it was Zillow who mentioned it, but Passive skills and are awesome, as are buffs.

Something like Proper Hydration (+PP) benefits every class. More PP for spell classes allows big damage from powerful spells. As a gadgeteer or Naturalist, that equals powerful buffs (or combat skills).

If you fancy plugging Skill Points into it, Meditation can give an extra 30 minutes per day. It depends wheter you see that as worth perming it and spending the SP, but that could work out our a 6 day run as an extra 40 turns. Considering you are falling 10-12 turns of completing a 6 day run, that *could* benefit you.

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Buying Stainless steelbreaker, n-barrelled shotgun and Seppia's cephalopod skullcap. Pm me here or ingame!

Sure, caffeine is way better than sugar, but I assumed that it was meant to be that way. I mean with black market caffeine, you're generating 3 times the amount of time that a day's normal sugar would give you. And that's without pulls. And it probably costs you less than buying a day's worth of eyeballs (except in the case of Mister Tea.) Honestly, the decaf restriction should be worth 3 times the mettle of the diet restriction. Decaf (along with no items) is one of the few restrictions that has a really big impact on your daycount.

I was having some trouble with the Mick fight today, and Zillow pointed out how valuable the Medevac chopper's air rescue action is in that fight. Boy, howdy.

What are you consuming during the run? I'm doing similar runs (some pulls, sugarless), and I've been working under a basic assumption of 2 brays / day starting on day 2 (they generate a lot of turns, and aren't difficult to farm in aftercore), then I've been trying to find ways to replace some brays with other stuff not requiring pulls (to be able to pull other stuff) without hurting turn generation too much. I think it's working fairly well.

if you have a kilt, use it when you're looking for a boss so you dont waste turns on the small fry. that's basically your ~15 turns extra right there.

(though personally I have no idea why ryme made bossfights so subsceptible to rng swing)

what are you using your foils on? if you dont have an iotm for that equipment slot foil items are very good considering their relatively low level requirements.

or maybe consider pulling an armored pegasus, if you're not missing the hp from the medevac chopper (but really though for most of your purposes paradime device is even better than the chopper, except for as you said in bossfights)

also what skills are you leveling?

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=D

Armored pegasus has a level 12 requirement, so not really usable unless you can't finish the Mick off at level 11 for some reason.

whoops heheh.

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=D

Here's what I've got to say on the subject.

Although I have a ridiculous list of items to pull from, so there might be a dozen people who can take the approach I'm describing. It's hard to think of non-IotM substitutes for some things, but the general idea is +XP, +FT, +noncombat.

Sugar is pretty ineffective, even if you don't have to go out of your way to farm it -- I've been living out of Sacks of Loot (I happen to have enough to get my fill of sugar every day), and to compare...
Some pulls, class skills, no food, sidekick at 9 -- I can do in 7 days
Some pulls, no skills, sugar, sidekick from the start -- is going to take 6 days

It's just not that big of a difference, and personally I think it's more fun to play with those permed skills.

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Jesus (#229) | Solitude (#257)

That's a pretty good list, but some thoughts:

If you're fighting way above your level, and have donation items, consider the Mask of Odysseus (for +items and getting the jump when you lose init) and the Stainless Steelbreaker (for chance of blocking).

That aside, even if you don't have donation items, it'll be worth it to seek out some of the Data gear, either the gear itself of mass-purchases of ARF passes (which are usually cheap):

Datashirt: improved computer interaction.
Datagloves: chance to stun; handy for bosses.
Datapants: +XP and -time. At level 6.
Databelt: HP and PP regen.

For vehicle, it's also worth considering the tri-cycle for the +10 offense and defense.

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The churches are empty / The priest has gone home / And we are left standing / Together alone
--October Project: "Dark Time"

Don't focus exclusively on FT either. Keep in mind that it takes 2 FT to equal one XP. As such, the +% XP items may actually beat out their respective FT comparisons.

Combat manipulation is a biggie. That's both +combat and +noncombat. Keep in mind that there's 3 or 4 times in a retcon where noncombat actually hurts you. There's one time where extra noncombat -and- extra combat hurt you, and there's two-three sections (depending on your pull tolerance/day speed) where +combat is useful.

As such, if you find yourself having a lot of spare PP, it might be worth considering the high level Psion buff that can be either/or. Provides better control.
Also keep in mind that you can't shrug off squidopius ink nor lion pills... mainly only relevant during the troutmaster though.

As for pulls.. I honestly don't have much in the way that's useful as far as IotM's go... Most of the better items I use are actually just things borrowed from people. A Seppia's hat is probably pretty really useful, for both the increase power of discs [useful for extra XP in a couple areas], the ability to breath, and -5 second duration (not really all that much, but every little bit can help.)

As for non-IotM's... Rolled Dahl is a must-have. I've found that a hammer time or zeno's bow are just fine as weapons for killing, but there's probably better choices that provide FT or XP. Tri-Cycle is definitely the way to go for vehicle.. gives you 4 range, also gives you additional damage and reduced damage taken, great for fighting outside your level... I wouldn't make it my first priority unless you can safely survive in the asylum or so during day 1. Even then, it might be better off to pull a blue chip, sell it, and grab a motorcycle. Gnat's gloves -may- be worthwhile to consider as well... Provides super jumps [a must-have], and reduces fumbles [may or may not be helpful, depending on your combat style]. Some of the URs are also potentially worth considering, to maximize your ability to survive outside your level; IE: Boomstick is level 3, 100 power, ranged weapon with +sonic and +fire. Simply beautiful if you're running high +to-hit and are ranged orientated.


Theoretically:
It may also be a legitimate strategy to 'outlast' your opponents. Pile on things to reduce damage, and use strike-backs of various kind. If you can kill them and minimize the damage you take (or regenerate it afterwards [both via pp regen or hp regen]) then it works out, even without you being able to hurt them yourself. IN such a case though, you're going to want a low level spell, so that once you see the message about them pulling back from the fierce defenses, you can just throw it at them for like 1 damage, and kill.

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Give unto me your soul.

I'm suprised nobody has mentioned it yet - but the Metal Medals and derivatives are all free pulls. The supersolid gives +8 to all stats, has no level requirement - and did I mention it's a free pull.

The level 7 quest tailsman (if I have it already) is always one of my first pulls. No level restriction, and if you switch to it right away there is very little experience lost. The tricycle others have mentioned already - bonuses to offense and defense which are great early, and not useless later on too.

Getting the harbor pearl by the time you get the under bay quest is handy. (unless you're an elementalist, in which case it's not needed). The sub-ma-car is an alternative if you have a strong off-hand item.

In terms of weapons, for ranged I start with whatever I can get - then if reflexes>strength, I go with epetomious nail gun (lvl 2 easier bought than pulled), Ball bearing cannon (lvl 3), recoil foil rifle (lvl 5 - good bonuses to hit and to dodge), and The golem's glock (lvl 8 - bonus to hit, bonus damage, extra shot).

For strength> reflexes, there's the digital rapier (lvl 3, bonus to hit and to initiative), the foil foil (lvl 4, bonus to hit and dodge), (I don't have a mighty quill yet, but that looks promising for lvl 5), and I'm still working out the rest on melee.