Twilight Forums

Pure caffeine! It'll give you a heart-attack though.

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out-out the lights-out all! and over each quivering form
the curtain, a funeral pall, comes down with the rush of a storm
and the angels all pallid and wan, uprising unveiling affirm
that the play is the tragedy man, and its hero the Conqueror Worm.

Playing more of the gadgeteer and I feel that Stun Gas and First Aid Kit should be out-of-combat spells that produce those items as combat-usable items. Like, you make stun gas with your PP, and then you have it in your combat items menu.

Yeah, it's just thematic, and it's probably more trouble than it's worth to change, and changing it means people have to go rooting through their combat items menu to use stun gas... but it seems like they should be items. Electric Net too, though I'm not at that level.

EDIT: Maybe a "canister of stun gas". Although that would make it cost more, which would make it harder for a beginning Gadgeteer to utilise.

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out-out the lights-out all! and over each quivering form
the curtain, a funeral pall, comes down with the rush of a storm
and the angels all pallid and wan, uprising unveiling affirm
that the play is the tragedy man, and its hero the Conqueror Worm.

Probably Shock Grenade too, then.

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The churches are empty / The priest has gone home / And we are left standing / Together alone
--October Project: "Dark Time"

I feel that First Aid is OK as it is right now - twice as effective out of combat as in combat. After all, applying bandages is good, but applying bandages without some otherworldly horror trying to feast on your innards is better, and easier, too.

But yes, combat-usables with a diminshed effect would be neat - if only to sell them to other players wanting to try out the Gadget-o-Matic Electro Net Launcher Mk.IIa.

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"The world of madness is a lot bigger than the world of sane."

Cornuthaum, #1234

Awesome ideas shok.

Perhaps other classes like Naturalists could create "animals in a bottle" or like one of those pill things that expand into huge ass sponge animals when you stick them in water for a while. Or maybe an Elementalist can make "fire in a bottle". Essentially an elemental grenade. The psion. Hm. Shiny aura in a can! >.>

As for guild support...what's your stand on that, Ryme?

One thing that needs to be considered before jumping to any conclusions about how cool it would be for a gadgeteer to make items he could sell is the money making potential of each class. For instance, right now I believe Psions are the worse, as they have one buff and no other class-specific ways to make money. Not to mention the fact that Wind Warrior isn't exactly a neccesary spell for anyone. Those are great ideas content-wise, but balance-wise it might be a good idea to work on the Psion first.

This could just be me being selfish though

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TheK3vin- #325

http://soundcloud.com/thek3vin

Psions have a +chips buff. Elementals have NOTHING that increases their item/chip farming potential.

Best farming class is either Naturalist or Gadgeteer. Depends on how profitable positronic computer farming is.

Shock, nice ideas. I agree.
Gadgeteers are just incredibly easy to play and do make quite a bit of money with ease. It's hard not to.

That said, thematics is what this game is about for me since I could always play any fantasy RPG if I wanted everything described as 'spells' and classes to simulate things from Dungeons and Dragons.

Simple 'useless' things like your suggestion are what would keep me around, making the characters, classes and experience feel distinctly like I am playing a superhero and not just some renamed spellcaster or fighter.

If the potential for autoselling the items is abusable, simply reduce the autosell costs of the items. If potential to sell to other players is high, just render the items unusable for non-gadgeteers. Problem solved. Thematics added. TH wins.

I don't necessarily think this is all bad. I personally wouldn't mind if Psions were colloquially the "hard" class, and Gadgeteers the "easy" class. It would be a challenge to me to be really good as Psion classes - and there's nothing to say Ryme couldn't buff them in subtle ways, so that they're still difficult but rewarding with clever play.

However, designing "rewards clever play" mechanisms is probably very difficult, and as it is, a little improvement on the Psions (maybe knock a few PP off their more expensive skills, or - better idea - give them a class-intrinsic level-based bonus to PP recovered when resting) they'll be fine.

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out-out the lights-out all! and over each quivering form
the curtain, a funeral pall, comes down with the rush of a storm
and the angels all pallid and wan, uprising unveiling affirm
that the play is the tragedy man, and its hero the Conqueror Worm.

Something like the basement for high-levels would be nice.

I know that sounds vague but I'm tired and sick and can't think of anything creative right now...

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TheK3vin- #325

http://soundcloud.com/thek3vin

My thought is that there should be a multi-level quest (say in the currently existing L10->L12 quest free zone).

L10: Part 1 -> Shirt
This quest involves visiting 2-3 zones to find 2-3 pieces which then are constructed into your choice of one of two different class-specific shirt.

L11: Part 2 -> Pants
As above, but finding each of the three pieces from another class (i.e, a Gadgeteer needs to have a Psion buff to find the first piece, a Elemental buff for the second, etc)

L13: Part 3 -> Turn them into a suit
Recsue Dr <Name>, the only person with the ability to weld your super shirt and super pants into a fully-fledged SuperSuit!

Rewards:
"Customzied" full body suit (about four options per class)
Wearing your SuperSuit allows access to the League of Heroes; which grants access to a new shop and new quests.

Keep in mind the less specific you are with your ideas, the more likely it is to have them implemented. But a good idea, nontheless (that's a word, right?).

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TheK3vin- #325

http://soundcloud.com/thek3vin

Right. I fully admit that my idea isn't *done* yet, but I figured that by posting the framework of what I had in mind everyone would be happy to help me fill in the blanks.

The very last level you can access? Yeah, that scales.

Not to hijack, but that would dovetail nicely with the additional content in "ascension". Like, the type of ascension you do determines which multi-level quest (just an hour or so at each level perhaps) you get access to.

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out-out the lights-out all! and over each quivering form
the curtain, a funeral pall, comes down with the rush of a storm
and the angels all pallid and wan, uprising unveiling affirm
that the play is the tragedy man, and its hero the Conqueror Worm.

I know that, MN* (why do I keep saying MJ?), but I'm saying something that could perhaps have leaderboards, something that you progress in. For instance, if the monsters in The Fiendish Pit got harder as you killed more, and it recorded how many you killed. Something to show off and compete with.

Though it'd obviously be much more in-depth and complicated than that.

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TheK3vin- #325

http://soundcloud.com/thek3vin

I'm not entirely sure, Kevin, how being 'less' specific makes things easier to implement. When making suggestions on class balancing regarding the extensive 33+ classlist in the Coffeemud codebase, I was constantly asked for specifics...to the point where I ended up having to rewrite, re-create and completely redo around 27 classes, skills, spells and whatnot included. It was very specific and was a three month project where I worked with a coder (not Bo the codebase creator-though he liked my ideas).

In games I ran I found that general suggestions are only good in general situations. When someone mentions a bug, an imbalance, or an issue, it's one thing to say that 'some classes need name changes' and another thing to tell me specifically WHICH classes need it....and why.

So I completely and wholeheartedly disagree with you and don't want to see a lot of vague, general, nonspecific suggestions which would, in fact, be more difficult to implement because they'll have to be detailed at some point before implementation.

In essence, it at least *imagine next word in bold* 'sounds' like you're saying:

Assassins suck. Everybody knows it. When making suggestions for assassin balance issues, don't mention specific skills, spells or abilities and don't discuss what can be done to make those specific class features better and more balanced. Just let the admin know the class, in general, is unbalanced and he can fix it easier.

If you *are saying that-which you might not be, then I can't, on any logical basis, find concurrence with your statement.

Well, here's what Jick said once a while back. He likes it when people just say "Hey it'd be funny if ____." This is because if you go into great detail about every drop for every monster in a zone you made up, odds are it won't work with the rest of the game or won't be balanced or whatever. If you provide a specific idea, lets use something already implemented for instance and say "What if there were a zone where everything scales and there were random names for the monsters?" That's different than writing 5 paragraphs about what each one would drop, exactly how much exp. they would give you, and why what items they gave you did what. I'm not saying you should say "Hey there should be some zone with ice cream." I'm saying that you may be wasting your time by writing for half an hour about something you want to see in the game, because odds are if Ryme even reads the whole thing, he may not like the idea or only like a few things in it. The idea has to come first. Specifics can be developed by either the player or Ryme as the idea comes to fruition.

Oh and by the way, which assassins are you talking about? Guild Wars perhap? Or is that just a random example?

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TheK3vin- #325

http://soundcloud.com/thek3vin

This is an IoTM, or perhaps an item given to everyone who was a Beta Tester (Alpha Testers got a merit badge, so Beta Testers should get something too, right?)

Internal500Errorblade

Description: This is a sword created from all of the Internal 500 Errors that were removed from the game when it was still in Beta phase. Laggy!

Immediate Effects: Initiative -10%

Power: 100

Combat Messages:

You stab at your enemy. Unfortuanently, you lag on the way there . (Normal attack + -5% damage)

The enemy attacks, but because you just stabbed it with a sword created from lag, it can't help but stop. (Dodge message. Only occurs after attacking at least once)

The enemy attacks, but its browser can't display the page, and it gets Error'd in the face. (Dodge message).

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These messages will occur along with normal messages.

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And thus, Ryme plunged the Errorblade into the Duplicate Beast. The Beast's power detioriated, and it became a simple typo. Then Ryme raised his Banhammer high over his head and slammed it down onto the Lag Beast, banning it from the game forever.

Odds are TH will never go out of beta. Ever.


No, seriously.

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TheK3vin- #325

http://soundcloud.com/thek3vin

True. KoL's still beta.

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No, it's not.

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The churches are empty / The priest has gone home / And we are left standing / Together alone
--October Project: "Dark Time"

@ What is KoL? page on the main site:

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That's old. I believe Jick said it left open beta when ascension rolled.

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The churches are empty / The priest has gone home / And we are left standing / Together alone
--October Project: "Dark Time"

Indeed, I recall Jick and possibly Skully saying that KoL was out of beta. All the documentation pages are without a doubt outdated, for the most part.

Alright. I stand corrected then. Thanks!

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Item/plot ideas of mine:

When I first signed up for this game I had expected to see some parodies of specific superheroes (I picked a gadgeteer with Batman in mind).

I thought it would be cool to have allusions to other superheroes.

1. Meet a real hero. As you're fighting your way through Twilight City in fishnets and a leather jacket, perhaps some real hero swings by (unlikely -- but might be neat). Before anyone screams copyright infringement, I mean real heroes like Ratman and Souperman. Trying to put DC and Marvel heroes directly in would be begging for a lawsuit.

2. Read comic books. A better one would be reading comic books in-game to receive stat bonuses or item creation recipes.

"You read the latest issue of your favorite comic and get some crime fighting ideas. You gain ___ XP!"

"You read the latest issue of your favorite comic and think 'I could build that!.' You got an item: _____ instructions".

My other suggestions are more nitpicky about the game as it is.

1. The color of text when you get damaged (that sickish green color) tends to blend into the background a little. Sometimes I get hit in the middle of a combat and don't even notice because the color doesn't stand out. It kindof does the opposite of standing out.

2. Some sort of caffeination meter. Maybe after drinking that 2nd Bray, you get a friendly reminder in the form of "Your hands start to twitch" that caffeine is dangerous in high doses and you can't take much more of it.

I have other ideas, I just can't think of them right now.

btw, when I get around to it, I've been wanting to do some fan art for a few days now.[/list]

I love the comic book idea. They could be random drops in the city areas.

Even better, make PAGES of the comic books drop and we have to assemble them. Name the comic books after not real Heroes, but Alfa Testers... Call them Alfa Fight.

"You found page 4 of Alfa Fight Issue 1: The Rise of Ryme"

Upon assembly:

"You have completely assembled Alfa Flght Issue 2: Rolling with Rotten."

Upon use:

"You take 20 minutes and read Alfa Fight Issue 3: Looking for Lord Moribund Saturnine Dread."

You gain: X (primary stat points)

or

You find you can practically apply the lessons in the comic! You gain XXX Experience.

or

Class specific options.

Gadgeteer. "Your keen observation and engineering skills allows you to recreate "XXXX" used by Yannish Nefarious! You gain " XXX plans!"

Naturalists "You are now able to summon XXX pet to fight by your side!"

etc.

Reading the entire series may result in some other permanent, displayable or usable award....

Huntsman

* Superteam

It's a mini-clan you can have folks join you in the fight, it doesn't do "much" but give you a common place you can put chips (maybe get 2% intrest/day) and items.
The main thing it does however is gives you a quick buff option, rather then typing the persons name they are on a drop down list.

* Supervillian

Rare ultra tough evil people that want to put a stop to your nefarious do-gooding!
They have guaranteed semi-rare/rare drops (alternative Talismans that do not so good stuff but have great bonuses)

* Alter Ego

Classic story line, fight yourself from an ALTERNATE DIMENSION, what if you had taken a different path, fight a shadow creature created from the darkness that has your stats and equipment but a different origin.

* Graffiti wall

Secret area's where you can read stats you don't normally get to see (total number of victories/defeats/etc/etc/etc) for a small fee.

* Contests

Creative fiction/drawing contests, enter a story about how Twilight or a picture of an area or a character sketch/picture, win stars, chips and respect!

Okay, so I'm annoyed at the 7 AM time limit on weekdays... and then I had an idea that the IRC chat folks helped me refine. I think it'll work pretty great... anyways, log snippet coming up.

(Note: I'm Deloth on here. The other people should be obvious, since I'm pretty sure they use the same names for the forum as the IRC room. Also, I'm abbreviating the names after they show up once. Anyways...)
---snip---
<Deloth> ...Huh. I just had an idea about the thing in TH that annoys me the most.
<Underfoot> What's that?
<U> I hope it's not that "Very few archetypical superheros are naturalists."
<D> No, no, it's not that, it's the 7:00 AM limit.
<U> Oh? What's wrong with that?
<D> Well, "if you're making 5000 chips a day at the casino, why do you even need a job?" was my first thought.
<D> One of my friends shot that down with the fact that beating all your income out of neighborhood thugs might look a tad suspcious.
<U> Right.
<D> So I had another idea. Why not allow a person with enough income and stats to get a more leniently-houred job?
<D> It wouldn't be cheap, mind you, but another hour or so without having to stop would be awesome.
<BenoHawk> To balance it out, instead of just costing chips right off the bat, why not be a negative% to chip drops?
<D> Good idea.
<BH> since you have to save a bunch of your chip drops for food/rent/etc
<U> Hm. That's actually a really good suggestion.
<BH> which would also make it less likely to be used by chip farmers
<D> And more likely to be used by more casual players like me... I LIKE it!
---snip---
So what do you think?

Sounds interesting, but I think the 7am limit keeps the game a bit more realistic.

Part of being a superhero is being socially conscious. You realise that your job is important to the local and national economy. Therefore, both your job and your activities are important the the well-being of the city. And superheroes always pay their taxes, which is why you don't make your living beating up security guards in the casino.

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The churches are empty / The priest has gone home / And we are left standing / Together alone
--October Project: "Dark Time"

Huntsman, I personally love your idea.

I've got a small one of my own, I hope it's not been said before.

Basically, I used the Bard's Play again, after defeating him, and I really liked the little message. What this made me pine for was other bits of nostalgic memorabilia, other items that when used, gave you a small bit of text with a "This reminds you of the time..."

I was hoping that these would drop from each of the bosses, and be untradeable, as they only hold sentimental value to you, the hero. Maybe the arsonist could drop a lighter or something similar, the "Zion's Helm" that doesn't appear to exist could be dropped by the demiurge, things like that. Maybe even a few of the Troutmaster's scales. Though admittedly, I'd prefer his whole damn face mounted on the wall in my hideout - I hated that bloody fish.

Ok, so I know it's hardly a game-changing idea, but I think it would be one of those neat little touches that can turn a good game great. I know I liked being able to flick through the Bard's Play again, even though the reward was just a couple lines of text, I thought it was a nice bonus. One of these items to remind you of each quest would be very cool, in my opinion.

How about removing the autosell value for the Abaddon Charm? I'm always afraid I'll accidentally sell it for a measly 100 chips.

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The churches are empty / The priest has gone home / And we are left standing / Together alone
--October Project: "Dark Time"

To Ryme anyone else reading this over, I second the comic book idea. It's one of the best suggestions I've seen, and might give TH more of that relevant culture connection it needs.

Also, an idea of my own:

So maybe at level one, when Joe Hero gets out his baseball bat and dons his PJs, should his base of operations be called a hideout. The undecorated name makes sense for somebody new to this whole saving-the-world-thing--and who is perhaps also a little ashamed of his new, slightly silly role. But after taking down drug dealers and robots and killer fish, I feel like maybe I don't want to come back to a hideout anymore. I'm not laying low to avoid the law--I am the law. Who the heck am I hiding from? I'm fighting satanic fiends over here!

Maybe the hideout's name changes as you level up. Maybe you can buy new ones, or additions, like new tunnels in a Bat Cave or floors in a Fortress. Regardless, I'm not too fond of Home Sweet Hideout.

If we're talking hideout extensions: Robot machine-gun-toting butler.

It doesn't even need to do anything, I just want one, dammit.

Well, maybe percentage increase on minutes gotten from coffee items? After all, you have a skilled person/robot preparing it for you.

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Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici
"By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe."

Places like the Golden Wooden Nickel Casino, it doesn't feel superhero-ish to me to be fighting casino guards. Maybe if you fought crooks and thieves and such trying to rob the place. Although I suppose the guards could just be corrupt.

_________________
out-out the lights-out all! and over each quivering form
the curtain, a funeral pall, comes down with the rush of a storm
and the angels all pallid and wan, uprising unveiling affirm
that the play is the tragedy man, and its hero the Conqueror Worm.

Level 12 Gadgeteer Skill: Supervehicular Engineering (Passive)
Flavor Text: Sure you've got a sweet ride, but if there's one thing a gadgeteer knows, it's how to turn machines up to eleven. Having this skill allows you to upgrade vehicles in your garage.

Use: Click the 'Upgrade' option next to a vehicle in your garage. Upgrading a vehicle consumes a Positronic Computer, 2x Titanium Plating and 2x Plasteel Plating.

Benefit: Double the bonuses granted by that vehicle. Upgraded vehicles cannot be auctioned/mailed/traded.

Let's do that with the magic truck vehicle. Then you can get +60 seconds to each turn instead of that measly +30. :/

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<==
Well, I've got a hat!

There should be a merit badge for Surviving the lag and 500 errors.