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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 7:41 pm 
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Tentatively being scheduled for Sunday, September 19, at 7:30 p.m. Mountain time. Certainly within a day or two of then, which is roughly a week before retcon. Time for some last-minute questions and gives everyone a chance to prepare.

If you have questions, post here. If you haven't checked out the updated retcon page on the manual, you may find it a bit more informative than previously.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:19 pm 
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First Question: What can you tell us about the rewards points system for retcon? (In particular, for those of us who never made ascension in KOL) Such as, what types of rewards can be purchased?

Second Question: There was previously a discussion of self-imposed limits that are not part of the checklist, (such as going through without using any accessories) and that there may be benefits to completing them. Have you decided to include them, either at this time or at some future point?

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:31 pm 
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Once retcon is established (14 more days!), then the level 11 quest will be the last thing you have to do before you can start a new run.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 7:07 pm 
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I have to change this to 24 hours earlier. Saturday, the 18th, at 7:30 p.m. Mountain Time (that's 1:40 before rollover).


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:03 am 
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Glad I got my questions in then, cause I'll definitely miss this one. Out of town wedding and all...

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 7:32 pm 
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SYSTEM MESSAGE: Hi and welcome to this pre-retcon installment of Tea Time with Ryme, and online chat and discussion about the game.
[N] Ryme: I guess I'm going to start with a few bits of background info, and I've got some pre-recorded questions, and then we'll open up for discussion.
[N] Ryme: So, first, big changes will be coming to the game in almost 7 days. It's a thing called retcon, which is basically an optional expansion that lets you replay all the quests, while gaining in power.
[N] Ryme: If you haven't yet looked at the retcon page on the game manual, that's a very good first place to start. It's short on fine details, but it has good info on the broad structure.
[N] Ryme: Actually, most of what I was going to say here just kind of repeats what's on that page, so maybe I should skip it.
[N] Ryme: I'll try a few questions from the forums which lead into more details, anyway.
[N] Ryme: Seventhcross asks: What can you tell us about the rewards points system for retcon? (In particular, for those of us who never made ascension in KOL) Such as, what types of rewards can be purchased?
[N] Ryme: I'll say there's a number of rewards, most or all unlocked in varying ways. Some will be themed (a bit) to match a specific class. Lots of the pieces will be equipment that can be worn.
[N] Ryme: There's also going to be at least one sidekick, at least one vehicle, and some food: both sugar and caffeine.
[N] Ryme: Oh, and some avatars.
[N] Sanjuro: Does "Sidekick" mean "understudy skill"?
[N] Ryme: yep
[N] Ryme: any other questions about that stuff?
[N] Ryme: Seventhcross also asked: There was previously a discussion of self-imposed limits that are not part of the checklist, (such as going through without using any accessories) ...
[N] Ryme: and that there may be benefits to completing them. Have you decided to include them, either at this time or at some future point?
[N] Ryme: my short answer is no plans at the moment. We'll want to try it as it is and see if there's a need to expand.
[N] Ryme: Something specific like "don't use X equipment slot" would be a bear to track, and isn't a compelling style of play, that I can see.
[N] AldenteVonTino: Is there/will there be any benifit to not advancing? (EIther for others who do anvance or those who chose not to?
[N] Ryme: Well, if you're attached to your high level, or to adventuring in high-level zones, you may want to not use retcon. But I'm kind of encouraging the retcon system as being more fun than not using it
[N] Ryme: so there wouldn't really be rewards/incentives to not participate.
[N] AldenteVonTino: Is there a badge to display when one does advance?
[N] Ryme: We've got a handful of badges set aside. I'm not going to spoil any of them at this point, but at least one is going to be pretty easy to get. Some others may take a lot of effort/time.
[N] AldenteVonTino suggests a badge for those who do not participate, and is altered/changed when they finally do.
[N] Ryme: I *really* don't want to talk people out of trying this, so that would sort of be against my primary purpose.
[N] Patojonas: "chicken badge"
[N] Ryme: that is pretty funny, though, Patojonas.
[N] Ryme: Leowen asked on the forums about the level range involved in retcon, and Harry answered, but I'll reiterate. The scope of retcon is going to be from level 1 through 11.
[N] Ryme: Obviously we've got stuff higher than that, which I'll probably just call "aftercore" -- things you can do afterward, if you like.
[N] Ryme: We've actually got quests planned for levels 12-16 or 17, too, but they're 90% likely to remain "optional"
[N] Ryme: There may be some useful stuff in high level quests, though. Extra bits of reward that feed back into benefits you get during your next run.
[N] Patojonas: can those only be completed during retcon?
[N] Ryme: nah. I expect you'd finish your run, which would sort of stop the timer, and then you'd be free to do what you like until starting a new run.
[N] Patojonas: got it
[N] AldenteVonTino: Is there a limit as to how often one can advance?
[N] Ryme: The only real limit is personal time, and how many turns you can squeeze into a day.
[N] Ryme: I know I've talked on the forums that there will be points ratings for the difficulty of a run. We're going to translate those points into a currency of sort called Mettle that will be used to ...
[N] Ryme: purchase rewards, like the gear, sidekick, etc.
[N] Ryme: I think it may be typical for people to spend, two, three, four, maybe more real-world days getting enough in-game turns to go through one run.
[N] Ryme: Depends a lot on difficulty, and competitiveness. Obviously it'd be easy to take your time and coast for a lot longer.
[N] AldenteVonTino: So it would be possible (in theory anyways) to obtain all skills as perm?
[N] Ryme: Yeah, sure. People who want to go fast might be able to get the existing ~60 in a few months.
[N] Ryme: In practice, I think most people will take a lot longer than that.
[N] Ryme: So, regarding that Mettle I was mentioning, you'd get most of your mettle from the run itself, but doing optional quests, like the space robots, would earn you bonus Mettle that could be used in the next run.
[N] Ryme: And as Aldente just mentioned, perming skills is one of the possible benefits of retcon. While I don't have a specific plan at the moment, there may be skills added to later level quests as rewards,
[N] Ryme: where you'd need to go out of your way to earn them if you then wanted to perm them.
[N] Ryme: Dyynamo had a question on the forums, too: One of the main problems I had with KoL is that the main storyline has stayed the same for the past five or six years. Will you eventually implement some
[N] Ryme: alternate storylines so we can switch it up? Maybe a Retcon option that allows you to start in a different city, with a new plot and new quests.
[N] Ryme: I don't have a great answer for that now. Many of the quests are due for at least a little revamp. I'd even like some options, where you can choose Quest A or B at one level.
[N] Ryme: But we also need a lot of time just seeing how the existing system works before figuring out where to add new content.
[N] Ryme: And I think those are the big ones from the forums. The floor is open for any and all questions.
[N] Sanjuro: Ryme, the Pre-completion Pro skill was such a pain to get. Will we be able to keep it in retcon?
[N] Ryme: Yeah, absolutely. That one is permanent once you learn it.
[N] Sanjuro: Thank you!
[N] Ryme: But that reminds me, I should warn folks that computers are one item that will need to be re-earned each run.
[N] Ryme: People playing options where you have pulls will be able to pull them, but it's going to be part of the challenge to re-acquire them each run.
[N] Ryme: The ones from your old run disappear.
[N] Ryme: I do have a fix already applied that keeps you from losing the Personal Copy of the Internet.
[N] Ryme: When used, it doesn't consume the installer CD. And those who already used theirs had it put back into their inventory yesterday.
[N] Sanjuro: Oh good. Retcon won't delete the internet. Whew.
[N] Olaf: So at the end of every run, we should install electronic computers if we're using positronics? :P
[N] Ryme: Yeah, that's one way to save the expensive stuff, Olaf.
[N] Patojonas: according to the rules, a player can move a donation item among his/her multis, is there anything preventing a player to move some of those to a multi, start retcon and then send them back thus
[N] Patojonas: bypassing the pulls limit if they have them?
[N] Ryme: Yeah, we have a block for that.
[N] Ryme: When you start a new run, all of your existing gear is sent to "Deep Storage". You pull it out of there as you want to get items.
[N] Ryme: Anyone in the middle of restrictions, if sent an item, has it go straight to Deep Storage
[N] Ryme: So, someone can send you the item, but it still takes a pull to get it.
[N] Harry Dresden: Do they still get a message showing it was sent?
[N] Ryme: Yes, you get the message, and you get a note telling you the item went into deep storage, and there's a permanent asterisk and reminder inserted into the message.
[N] Harry Dresden: And is the trade system going to have the same block?
[N] Patojonas: was going to ask that...
[N] Ryme: I think right now you just can't use trade if you're under restrictions. Or the Auction House.
[N] Ryme: I'd eventually like to add more flexible options, but that's the short-term fix
[N] AldenteVonTino: As it reads: "There are likely to be voluntary options to restrict what you eat, what items you can access, what skills you can use, or how your sidekick works." Does this imply if we chose this...
[N] AldenteVonTino: ...We can change our mind soon after, or must wait until the next time the choice is given?
[N] Ryme: Good question. At any point during a run you can opt out of a restriction. Of course you lose the benefits (mettle points) that you'd get at the end.
[N] Patojonas: no AH? thats bad....
[N] Ryme: Like I said, Patojonas, I'm already planning a fix. Probably items purchased just go to Deep Storage, but managing the purchasing funds and such will be tricky.
[N] Sanjuro: Are you planning to be in chat when retcon rolls out?
[N] Ryme: yeah, I expect to be around most of the day scrambling to set things up, and then there will probably be an early and extra-long rollover
[N] Ryme: But I'll be around for a few hours after that. I expect some of the testers will be around and ready with advice, too.
[N] AldenteVonTino: It almost seems a given there will be more foes to face, I hope (lol) but the old foes already available, will they also gain power/strength and maybe more exp?
[N] Ryme: Most of the normal existing foes won't change. Part of the challenge is YOU will be weaker, as you start over, so they'll remain a challenge.
[N] Ryme: There's a ridiculous number of new ones in level 11, though, and a smattering that'll show up in other places.
[N] Sanjuro: Are you going to send emails before retcon (like KoL did recently)?
[N] Ryme: Actually, yeah, I'd been thinking about that. Except I'll probably send them about a week after retcon, once some of the chaos has died down.
[N] Sanjuro: After the spaders have figured out how to break the game?
[N] Ryme: I need to put in some sort of opt-in dealie in the account settings, so people can tell me if they don't want to be contacted. I don't want to spam, but I think a lot of people wandered off and may
[N] Ryme: want to know that the game is changing in a big way.
[N] Sanjuro: How about a one-time email, with instructions on how to opt-out?
[N] Ryme: yep, very likely that's how it'll work.
[N] AldenteVonTino: OH! I do have ONE more: WIll there be any form of 'savings account' or maybe even a 'stock market' established? (ie: a bank to gain interest or somehting like that?"
[N] Ryme: not likely. Free turns every day are your access to more earnings. I don't want there to be a way for people to get stuff without logging in and playing.
[N] AldenteVonTino: WOuld there be a way to allow this, but it ONLY functions if there is a log in, and actual game-time played?
[N] SpockYoda: Ask Bank of KoL to branch out :P
[N] Ryme: Still not likely, honestly. Interest is a lovely thing in the real world, but I think it'd just muck up the in-game economy.
[N] Ryme: what else?
[N] AldenteVonTino: where are you going on vacation when all this is over?
[N] Ryme: Truth be told, I expect to take a really big break in November, to work on a National Novel Writing Month project.
[N] Ryme: However, I won't disappear entirely. There's something about seeing a 4-year plan come together that's been very rejuvenating. I've been full of ridiculous ideas.
[N] Harry Dresden: Any special rewards this year for those of us who also do that?
[N] Ryme: I'd consider it, Harry.
[N] Ryme: We've got a lot to come after retcon. Leagues, mall stores, got a level 12 quest mapped out completely, got a pretty good idea for a daily puzzle system, got a neat idea for a complicated but valuless
[N] Ryme: riddle, and more...
[N] Ryme: Plus I expect a few weeks of bug fixing once this goes live.
[N] Ryme: I may actually do a kind of poll to see what players really want as the next big thing after retcon. I'm struggling to know what to do first.
[N] Ryme does have a little getway weekend in Santa Fe planned, too.
[N] Ryme: I'd also like to take a moment and point out we do have Twilight Heroes shirts available, in case anyone has missed the link on the home page.
[N] Ryme: Just added a new design the other day that says "Hero by Night" and has a moon in it.
[N] SpockYoda: I like the new one, by the way, Ryme.
[N] AldenteVonTino: One day I will be able to afford a T...
[N] Patojonas: will skill points be completely implemented anytime soon? Asking because some skills still don't use them which is beneficial to the player, talking about metals for example...
[N] Ryme: Pato: yeah. It was the plan to finish that with retcon. I still might. But if not, it'll come very soon afterward, during other debugging.
[N] Patojonas: nice
[N] Ryme: We're coming up on a full hour of chatting. I'm willing to do a little overtime if there are still questions, but probably won't go much past 8:45 of official typing.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 7:43 pm 
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Thanks for the transcript, Harry!

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 11:19 am 
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Yeah, I really planned to stay but I'm slightly ashamed to say I fell asleep in front of the screen about 10 minutes before it started. Thanks for the transcript, and looking forward to all the good stuff.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:17 pm 
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A question that comes to mind with the auction house issue: does all of your gathered chips get sent into deep storage too? If not, perhaps they should because I (personally) think the auction house (and stores when they are implemented) should not be too big of a detriment to a run as long as you have to earn the chips that you are going to spend in the auction/store. Granted, some people would be able to donate for stars and then sell them for some quick chips, but I think that's just part of the benefit of being one of the donors for the game.

Summarize: Please leave the AH available, just remove access to chips from prior runs.

Side note to CS: how can your "Colorful MD" ever be "complete"? There are more IotMs to be added yet... perhaps you should put that it is "up to date"? ;P

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:33 pm 
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Chips will go into Deep Storage.

As for the AH, ...
Ryme's edit: Sorry, Harry, but what you said about the AH isn't true. If you have any restrictions on items, you won't have access to someplace where you can buy just about anything.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 6:13 pm 
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It's an understood (up to date).

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 6:42 pm 
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seventhcross wrote:

Summarize: Please leave the AH available, just remove access to chips from prior runs.


Leaving the auction house open would invalidate the point of having items restrictions. If you don't want restrictions, you don't have to accept them, but if you do, you should lose the ability to buy stuff other people have farmed, or the restriction is quickly emptied of much challenge. For example, a Mister Tea may not be particularly valuable to the person selling (it's trivial to get more if you wait a few days), but if they're not in the Black Market it's incredibly valuable for you to buy one that you wouldn't normally be able to get.

In a worst case scenario, people would "cheat" and have their friends sell them all the useful items they needed for low price. If you time it right, it'd be trivial to put things up for auction when only one person is actively searching for it.


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