Hit / Miss

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the SUPERnaturalist
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Hit / Miss

Postby the SUPERnaturalist » Mon Feb 16, 2009 6:28 am

ok, question: is hitting/missing now purely based on level and not reflexes or anything now? 'cause I can't even touch the things in DDD, even now that i have a corrupt amulet =_=....
edit: now i'm wearing all the stuff i have that gives + to hit, and i still can't hit them .....
=D

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Cristiona
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Re: Hit / Miss

Postby Cristiona » Mon Feb 16, 2009 6:54 am

It's always been primarily based on your level. And you're fighting things that scale to your stats, so you can't out-level them.
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Re: Hit / Miss

Postby Muhandes » Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:05 am

So I assume your basic tohit is based on your level+ vs. the monster's level? This is probably then affected by bonus to-hit.
I wonder if foe toughness bonus goes into it too.

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Re: Hit / Miss

Postby Ryme » Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:59 am

A player's to-hit (and dodge) is primarily a function of level, but reflexes do factor in to it (it says so in the manual, and the manual rarely lies). Characters get a flat amount of points every level for each stat. It's roughly 10 points per level, but each class gets slightly different to-hit and dodge gains per level so that may be plus or minus a couple depending on class. (There's a tie-in here with your HP and PP max gains per level, too.)

Non-scaling foes tend to maintain an average where 1 xp = 1 to-hit = 1 dodge = 1 offense = 1 defense = 1 hp. There are many exceptions, but many foes fall into that pattern. The flamethrower pillar perhaps being the most obvious exception: It has zero dodge because it doesn't move, but it's got increased defense and offense.

A common misconception is that it's always possible to out-scale scaling monsters. The thing is, different zones have different types of scaling. Some foes may mirror your stats (or a percentage thereof), some foes may have kind of the opposite of your stats, most people quickly pick up that Sector 7-G simply increases progressively, and the Tri-Delts, as Cris notes, scale based on your stats. I realize the variety isn't always intuitive, but one of the things I like is that the different zones require different techniques to be able to game the system a little. I had to actually create a whole line of gear and a potion specifically for DDD as an afterthought.

Some scaling foes used to have their to-hit and dodge calculated after your reflexes and bonuses had been plugged in, so increasing your to-hit increased theirs (or their dodge) as well. Some changes a few months ago had me reorder this process, so foes now won't scale at all based on your reflexes (excepting the DDD) and bonus +to-hit equipment.

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Re: Hit / Miss

Postby Muhandes » Mon Feb 16, 2009 11:18 am

Thanks for the clarification. I'm sure it still leaves a lot to be spaded, as it should :) I'm looking forward to find the specifics.

What is still unclear is how these are compared against each other. I suppose to-hit is compared to dodge to determine if you hit or not (with maybe some randomness, since against the same monster you can hit on one round and miss on the other).
But how do offense and defense factor in? Is it a second check, i.e. to actually hit you need to-hit > dodge and offense > defense ? Or do they play some other roll?

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Re: Hit / Miss

Postby Satan » Mon Feb 16, 2009 11:51 am

I think you'll hit regardless if the to-hit check works out, but if their defense is high enough, you'll simply do one damage unless it's a crit. Even then it could still be 1 damage if they're strong enough :p A curious thing about the pit monsters is that when you're much weaker than them, they... Well, it's been so long I can't remember. But I believe, they did regular damage and then one or two types of elemental damage. As you get better equipment to outmatch them, eventually one of the damage's went away. One second, I'll go look at something on Hoka >.> Hmmm, no Aegis so I can't really verify it. But I remember that one of the damage's basically canceled out. I believe it was the physical, probably do to the Aegis's damage reduction. There would only be elemental damage left. I'll have to check on Satan to make sure though :/

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Re: Hit / Miss

Postby Ryme » Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:10 pm

Muhandes wrote:What is still unclear is how these are compared against each other. I suppose to-hit is compared to dodge to determine if you hit or not (with maybe some randomness, since against the same monster you can hit on one round and miss on the other).


I thought this was in the manual, but I don't see it, so maybe it's not.

* Hit and dodge are compared against each other to see if you hit them or they hit you.

* Offense and defense are compared against each other to calculate the damage done, if a hit succeeds.

Yes, there's randomness for both.

I think this reflects real life to a certain extent. If someone attacks you and they miss, it doesn't matter what you're wearing: they missed. On the other hand, if they hit you with assault force, then it's going to hurt a little whatever you're wearing, it's just going to hurt less if you're wearing heavy armor than if you're wearing pajamas, and that's true whether it's a weak-ish item like a baseball bat or a powerful item like an alien laser beam.

Offense and defense are primarily related to the power of weapons and armor, but are also modified by equipment bonuses (where they say +offense or +defense) and certain skills (most notably the Gadgeteer battle armor skill, which gives a LOT of defense).

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Re: Hit / Miss

Postby Muhandes » Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:51 pm

Thanks for this clarification too, and it does make sense, at least to me.

I might add for completion (and this is from the manual) that Reflexes add to to-hit as well as dodge, Strength adds to offense (or is it straight damage add?), and Intellect affects spell damage and initiative. Also according to my understanding of the manual, offense, defense, to-hit, dodge and initiative are all mostly affected by level, where stats are secondary only.

I hope I got it all right.

PS I just noted a gadgeteer will find it very hard to spade damage since we have both a passive scaling offense skill and a passive scaling defense one. Spading dodge/to-hit will have to take into account a passive to-hit skill :)

PPS Might as well mention Psion's passive scaling initiative in this context. Spaders beware.

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Re: Hit / Miss

Postby the SUPERnaturalist » Mon Feb 16, 2009 5:20 pm

so if the monsters in DDD scale to my stats, then using the corrupt amulet doesn't even matter?
=D

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Re: Hit / Miss

Postby Cristiona » Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:22 pm

the SUPERnaturalist wrote:so if the monsters in DDD scale to my stats, then using the corrupt amulet doesn't even matter?
It'll make 'em tougher...
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Re: Hit / Miss

Postby the SUPERnaturalist » Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:09 pm

=_= so how can i hit them then...
=D

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Cristiona
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Re: Hit / Miss

Postby Cristiona » Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:23 pm

Boost criticals and increase DA so you can slug it out long enough to hit.

Or use spells.
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Re: Hit / Miss

Postby the SUPERnaturalist » Wed Feb 18, 2009 9:13 pm

do naturalist spells give +to hit?
=D

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Re: Hit / Miss

Postby MagiNinjA » Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:06 am

The naturalist has spells? I'm assuming you mean combat skills, but yes, they do.

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Re: Hit / Miss

Postby Strlikecrazy » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:46 am

Cristiona wrote:
the SUPERnaturalist wrote:so if the monsters in DDD scale to my stats, then using the corrupt amulet doesn't even matter?
It'll make 'em tougher...


Making foes tougher = more exp?
But wearing a Corrupt gives -50%exp, so it isn't obviously worth it :cry:
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