Jick talks about TH on his last show

Talk about the game. What game? The game with the power? What power? The power of ... aw, skip it.

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MagiNinjA
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Postby MagiNinjA » Fri Jan 23, 2009 10:50 am

Oh, that's neat. Thanks for the heads up.

That's...interesting. From how much I've played of Twelve Sands (I'm like, level 5! lulz), it's not too interesting. It's literally hack n slash to until you get items X, Y and Z. But the interface is pretty neat. And I haven't played the upper levels so I have no idea how that is.

I wonder if Jick is reading my words? >.>

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Postby neocamp22 » Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:27 pm

Hot Stuff: The problem of requiring a good community before that stuff becomes viable is tricky


It's not very tricky cause Ryme just decided to eventually redo IoTMs, with different flavors.
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Postby Cristiona » Fri Jan 23, 2009 9:01 pm

MagiNinjA wrote:That's...interesting. From how much I've played of Twelve Sands (I'm like, level 5! lulz), it's not too interesting. It's literally hack n slash to until you get items X, Y and Z. But the interface is pretty neat. And I haven't played the upper levels so I have no idea how that is.
It stays roughly the same. However, I like the numerous small quests, changing food quality, increased fatigue and such. Also, there's plenty of rare stuff to try and dig out. And, of course, there's the Dungeon Runs.
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Postby Corrupt Shadow » Sat Jan 24, 2009 10:30 pm

If we get mall-type stores, our "economy" will be similar to KoL's.

Until then, comparing the two seems to be a little far-fetched in my opinioin. The two economies are too dissimilar.
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Postby Cristiona » Sun Jan 25, 2009 10:19 pm

Well... when people started making twice as much in the castle as they did the cube...
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Postby Deathkiller » Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:41 pm

This makes me think of something I've always wondered. OK... I can hyperfarm for in-game money or I can donate and sell ITOMs or stars so I have piles and piles of money... another option in larger games (I doubt anyone is doing it on TH but I wouldn't be suprised) is to pay someone real world money to buy in game currency. Then I can take that in game money and through the auction house, or a KOL style mall buy the things I want.

Sounds complicated and not nessicarilly the best for the game. How about if we have the ability to buy with real world money all past items of the month at an inflated cost? This will help newer players feel less locked out of the "old boys club" and be more encouraged to donate to the game and thus fund improvements for all.

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Postby MagiNinjA » Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:54 pm

I actually do like keeping IotMs in longer, but it also restricts the economy to that singular price, as there is unlimited supply from said vendor (*cough*RYME*cough* ;) ). Sometimes having a wacky economy is fun. Not the best, just fun. To be honest though, personally I would like having IotMs on sale for a year. But I know the traders won't like this, for the most part, unless they like to hold on to a stockpile of items for a very long time.

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Postby Corrupt Shadow » Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:01 pm

No, that would suck for those of us who buy multiple IotM's in hopes to make a profit off of them a few months later.
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Postby Deathkiller » Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:05 pm

My only thought on advocating this is that it grant a more level field to newer players. I was reading what people were saying about TH is a fresh start for people who sounded (like I sometimes feel) forever shut out of part of a game like KOL that has been going on for long enough that there are going to be some items I'll NEVER have access to, items that make a serious difference in game play. I advocated making the payments going to the game instead of to collectors because while an important part of the game they aren't the coder(s) and thus cannot actually improve play for anyone other than themselves and their customers. Buying stars or items to sell so you can then use the chips to buy old items is a slow and unreliable proccess... personally I would rather be able to just pay Ryme for old items than risk my money on not being able to get what I wanted because of the IG economy. While the reality might not be as perfect as this what I'd like to see is a way to promote expanding and improving a good game until it's a great one and a great one until it's amazing and so on, and I see three things that are vital to that a.) new players that want to stay for more than a little while (I was able to ascend in KOL in a month of so, and I completed all the TH content in half that time, because of course there is less of it, but still) b.) relatedly older players having fun things to do other than just trade (that's why elsewhere I'm talking about retcon options) and c.) expanding content, which in my opinion is done through making it worth the while of the management (such as increasing donations by making players able to buy ITOMs longer).

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Postby MagiNinjA » Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:25 pm

Hm. You do raise some good points. This is a very delicate issue though. But I'm hoping a non-IotM affected run will be allowed as an option. This may also ask for a revamp of the leaderboard presentation system though. Make it query based and whatnot.

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Postby Olaf » Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:39 pm

Socket wrote:IotM's start out at the equivalent of 10 Silver Stars. For every month older an IotM is its cost goes up by 1 star until a year later it's cost is 22 stars.
Last I checked (which hasn't been for a while, so it may have changed) the month the item first comes out, it's $5, then the next month it's $10, then goes up 1 each month after that.

Corrupt Shadow wrote:No, that would suck for those of us who buy multiple IotM's in hopes to make a profit off of them a few months later.
Not that I disagree, but his comes across almost the same as somebody else saying "IotMs suck for anybody that doesn't want to have to do anything."
And what's more important, anyway? Keeping the game running, or making the handful of people that do that happy? Not that I'm saying they're exclusive goals; I understand multi-buyers are good donaters. But also keeping things around longer could be better in he long run. We still have a pretty small community, and if at a later date, it becomes significantly larger, there are those that will come along and see these amazing things that they missed that they can either wait around in chat and try to buy from somebody else or just no have it, which could be really frustrating, and they see no way to be competetive with those that do have the old items and leave. I'm not saying that would happen, I'm saying it could. You just came off as incredibly narrow-minded in that post.
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Postby Corrupt Shadow » Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:44 pm

:roll:

It's an economy... nothing stays around forever.

Guess we better start calling them Item(s) of the Month(s).

Fact of the matter is, having them around for only a month may suck for people who join 9 months later, but it keeps a steady flow of donations when people know they can't get a particular item after the month is over.

People can no longer obtain an "alpha" badge, but I don't hear anyone complaining about that (except for me sometimes).
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Postby Olaf » Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:00 pm

Corrupt Shadow wrote:It's an economy... nothing stays around forever.
So milk it for all it's worth until it's gone. :/

Corrupt Shadow wrote:People can no longer obtain an "alpha" badge, but I don't hear anyone complaining about that (except for me sometimes).
People do, but not very loudly. Probably because it doesn't actually affect anything gameplay-wise. Or anything-wise, outside of just having it. I gives no advantage; IotMs do.
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Postby Corrupt Shadow » Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:28 pm

The old IotMs give an advantage, but they aren't a necessity.

They are also status symbols, admit or not.

"He has a Heroes Cape, he must have been here a long time!"

Corrupt Shadow shrugs.

Well, I've put my two-cents in.
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Postby MagiNinjA » Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:48 pm

CS, you don't quite get it. There will always be players who want any old IotMs. They are a necessity for competitive players (or future competitive players, as the situation plays out) and unless Ryme wants to do the Jick (remake old IotMs into new ones), Olaf does have a point. I mean sure, traders won't like that kind of change, but what if Ryme gave you a bunch of other things to try and sell? Like the Rainbow Pearls and/or wads in KoL or something. Things that sell but aren't achieved from donations. That, I think, might be the most advisable way to go about it.

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Postby Deathkiller » Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:08 pm

Some items are status symbols others seem much more useful to certain play styles... look through the wiki and you will see specific ITOMs listed as the best (sometimes only) options for various tasks. I will admit my bias, I am not a collector, and for me it isn't about status it's about playing an enjoyable game. I think that option should be available to me and anyone that joins later... I also think that it will only increase revenue for the game. While it might "hurt" traders to an extent, I agree with MagiNinjA that there are other ways to keep that form of gameplay viable and interesting... while still allowing for a more level playing field for newer players willing to devote the time and/o/re money into the game.

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Postby Cristiona » Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:05 pm

This was discussed before the first item came out, and it was decided to have the current system. The concept of items that increased in price was raised, but decided against. You'd probably have to ask Ryme why.
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Postby Ryme » Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:07 pm

Mostly, it didn't seem popular. Also, I wasn't as worried about it with normal items as with something like a consumable/skill IotM. Still, I think in the future my biggest regret of the early days will be the rarity of some of the early IotMs. On the other hand, the game wouldn't exist if I hadn't had them, so I can't regret it too much.

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Postby MagiNinjA » Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:11 pm

It's never too late to revise the system. Until it's too late. But really, I don't think it's too late to revise it some time.

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Postby Corrupt Shadow » Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:09 am

Hindsight is 20/20.
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