New Level 8 quest implemented. DIS KUS! Spoilers likely.

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MagiNinjA
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New Level 8 quest implemented. DIS KUS! Spoilers likely.

Postby MagiNinjA » Sun Jan 04, 2009 5:45 pm

It's here.

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Postby Cristiona » Sun Jan 04, 2009 8:50 pm

Best quest ever.
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Postby Olaf » Sun Jan 04, 2009 9:31 pm

Best quest so far this year.
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Ryme
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Postby Ryme » Sun Jan 04, 2009 9:49 pm

Oh yeah: Wanted to give a massive thanks to Cristiona for providing the huge majority of writing and planning on this one.

Also, credit goes to Corrupt Shadow for a number of the images.

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Postby Hannahmaus » Mon Jan 05, 2009 2:06 pm

It's wonderful and I love it! Thank you so much! :D

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Postby Muhandes » Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:27 pm

It's cool, I like it.
I'm not sure I like the one-time choice adventures though. Outside an ascension context that's a once per lifetime choice - I hate those.

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Postby Ryme » Mon Jan 05, 2009 5:35 pm

Which one-time choice adventures are you referring to? Because I can't think of anything that's one-time in this quest. I think I know which adventure you mean, but if so, you're making assumptions.

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Postby Cristiona » Mon Jan 05, 2009 9:07 pm

I would assume the Funny Rooms. And considering what they give you, it'd be broken as hell not to limit them.

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Postby MagiNinjA » Mon Jan 05, 2009 9:20 pm

Or possibly the armory room. Though I heard that one is multiple for sure the day it was out.

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Postby Cristiona » Mon Jan 05, 2009 10:25 pm

Starker wrote:Is it normal I didn't get it?
It's not a one-time adventure, so yes. Perfectly normal.

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Postby Corrupt Shadow » Mon Jan 05, 2009 10:32 pm

Ryme wrote:...Also, credit goes to Corrupt Shadow for a number of the images.

Yay! I've been waiting for those to surface! ;)
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Postby darkzumi » Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:07 pm

The new quest rocks my socks! In the good way.

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Postby Muhandes » Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:48 pm

Yes, I was making assumptions, sorry. I thought the armory was one-time and it isn't, seems to be once per day or some other mechanism. I didn't like the way Bass-O-Matic 77 was a once per lifetime choice, thought this is likewise.

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Postby Ryme » Sun Jan 11, 2009 9:24 pm

Erich wrote: it was just the fact that the quests have the exact same mechanic:

Adventure in A until non-combat which unlocks B. Continue until quests ends.

On this one we tried to work in a couple of different choices based on the way the two halves of the quest intertwine. This may or may not have been entirely obvious.

Still, the overall point is one I do kind of understand. But in general there's a pretty limited list of quest mechanics that aren't ridiculously complicated. Here's the few I can think of offhand:

1. Defeat X of a monster
2. Collect X of an item that drops/get X different items to drop
3. Hit X number of noncombats
4. Come up with X chips to pay for something
5. Pick the correct choice from an array of choices
6. Riddles
*And the always popular: some combination of the above

Are there others? I'm drawing a blank right now on other options. I don't really use #4 in the game, because it just doesn't seem that interesting as an option. Among the other 5, four of them basically boil down to "keep clicking until it's over". The sixth, riddles, is more challenging up front, but then has zero value in terms of replayability, unless you invent some sort of dynamic riddle, which is getting into the realm of too complex.

One of the quests I most appreciate in Kingdom of Loathing is the level 12 quest, because while it boils down to #1, it has the caveat of "exercise other skills to speed up this process, and choose from what's available." But that's a sprawling, high-level quest, and wouldn't really work well in a smaller scope.

I realize I don't use #5 anywhere yet, but I probably will, and I'm not sure that would satisfy your objection anyway.

I'd love to have some other options. If you've got a suggestion (and I mean anyone, not just Erich--this is a topic I'm actively discussing with the mods right now too) for a non-trivial alternative, I'd take it seriously. But in my experience it's been a lot tricker than it seems.

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Postby MagiNinjA » Sun Jan 11, 2009 9:46 pm

Yeah, you're completely right about this. It IS difficult. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen it done properly. Maybe a bit in KoL, but even in KoL, eh.

This is sort of an abstract application, but in Left 4 Dead, you have objectives, reach a safe house (a checkpoint), kill monster x, etc. But the procedural AI (the Director) always make the experience getting through and to these points exciting and unique each time. Like I said, however, this is sort of an abstract comparison, obviously.

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Postby Cristiona » Sun Jan 11, 2009 10:02 pm

Hm. I've been playing a lot of Oblivion lately, and it seems that the majority of quests boil down to:

Go from A to B and then either 1) kill something or 2) grab something. Sure, there's plenty of pitfalls or other things to kill on the way, but at it's core, it's basically a series of glorified fetch and/or escort quests. It's just that the graphics, and the sneaking, and the OMIGAWD IT'S THROWING FIREBALLS AT ME! make you forget those sorts of things.

Most video games are like this. Just boil them down and you get go from A to B and do X.

You don't notice in video games, but in games like TH or KoL which are, essentially, old school text adventures, it's more visible. I'm not sure how much you can do to hide it, short of good writing and interesting enemies. And some kind of parallel to the willing suspension of disbelief.


In other words, you kids and your fancy graphics can git awf mah lawn.

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Postby Olaf » Sun Jan 11, 2009 10:07 pm

It's not really all that different, but having to use/combine items to further a quest makes it feel more like you're acually doing something.
For example, you have to decode the swipe cards for the casino quest, and it feels like you're doing something. You can even go farm or whatever somewhere else if you so choose. Which acually, is a bit more involved than just a combo/use. You have a set time there, so you know how long it is until then next stage of the quest, instead of just click-and-hope.
Also, required eqips is a way to add some interactivity. (But have it acually do something, or cause a choice, not like the blackbird in KoL. That's interesting at first, but quickly loses its novelty)
In fact, Truoble in the Galleria, with doing the stuff with the steel knuckles was a good idea.
But yes, all quests do boil down to your list. They just don't have to feel like it.
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Postby MagiNinjA » Sun Jan 11, 2009 10:21 pm

You make a major point.

Is there a text adventure (or just more old school games) that have good "quests"?

I think a search into old school games is in order.

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Postby malk-a-mite » Sun Jan 11, 2009 11:02 pm

King's Quest.......
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Postby MagiNinjA » Sun Jan 11, 2009 11:08 pm

I'm not sure if point and click adventures qualify because technically, they're following a similar format as KoL and TH.


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