Twilight Forums

My vote... woefully underpowered. It's just too weak to be a 10-star item.

Just changed the title. -MN

I really love the idea......but I can buy or farm better stuff easily as far as I can tell. The only thing really cool is that I can get dynamite and the iron man joke. Neither of which I really plan to use.....

I freaking love the unstable isotopes.

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The churches are empty / The priest has gone home / And we are left standing / Together alone
--October Project: "Dark Time"

I think the idea is total top of cool, but just what it is... the way my quirks work out, I don't know how often I'm actually going to use it. I'm much, much too stingy with items.

That's all my own holdups, though. I feel like some of the items should be more powerful or are doing something I'm not seeing? But I dunno.

This is pretty good for transmoggers, I guess, if you have autosell items to burn off. Not so much for the higher levels before robots.

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Vote for TH on global rankings!

Unless I'm missing something, the Isotopes work out to 20 chips per PP, which is far worse than 12/pp in the Desert or 8/pp on the Space Station. What's to love about that?

Similarly, the Coffee is less than a turn per day better than Mr Tea at 150% of the cost.

Sugar Substitute is about a turn-and-a-half a day better than Eyeball Gumballs for 900 chips for 3 compared to ~1200 chips for 6x Eyeballs; making it actually a pretty good deal.

I dig the concept, but it really looks like it was designed for (for lack of better terminology) Hardcore Ascensions; which don't exist yet in TH. In the "casual ascension" context we have, Recyclonized goods just feel weak; kit is an expensive key to an expensive shop...

This data is only partially correct. There's more to it than that. Under the right circumstances, it's MUCH more valuable.

It is true that this thing is probably going to be more useful in an ascension environment (not just hardcore--regular ascension would apply). I did think it would be a fun way to trade junk items for useful items, but various definitions of "junk" and "use" may be applied here.

If cost versus value is a real issue for the consumables, I'm very willing to examine that. I'm also open to suggestions for things that might make it more interesting--is there an item that's particularly weak, or particularly out of place for the cost?

I was hoping there might be more to a couple of them than was immediately obvious.

The problem is, there's really no such thing as "junk". Everything has a minimum value of it's autosell. Once you've gotten your second instance of a non-consumable common drop, your options are either to autosell it or to Recyclonize it; which effectively means the Recyclonizer Kit is a shop that sells expensive consumables.

I don't know how cost-effective either the buffing or combat items are yet because I'd need to transmogrify (or eventually, ascend) to give them a reasonable test (also, it'll be easier to gauge when I know what they do...); but given Mister Tea I don't think it's unfair to say that the Oil Can Coffee is a bit overcosted for it's effect.

For the sake of interestingness, what if the Coffee (and perhaps the sweetener) added an (half?) hour of a minor buff? (Say a Str boost for the Coffee and a Ref boost for the Sugar Substitute; or perhaps 1hp[coffee] or pp[substitute] per turn)

Hm. Actually, I'm thinking the sugar substitute might need a bit of a boost. On average, it's only better than the green/blue/pink gumballs, I believe.

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The churches are empty / The priest has gone home / And we are left standing / Together alone
--October Project: "Dark Time"

It could really use a few more items to create, especially on the higher end of things. Why not a few items each costing 300? As for bumping up the lower ones... well, there's a few things I can think of. One: Bump them up, or provide positive effects from 'em beyond the turns (for coffee and candy). Just a little something. Maybe a bit of +item, since you've got recycling on the stomach? For the combat stuff, it's just too weak to be worth it. By the time you can afford to use them, they're not useful. And what's the point it using something that is useless? That's the most times I've said 'use' in a row ever. >.>;
ANYWAY!
Aside from that: The sidekick, while nifty, is again a bit underpowered for it's cost. How about having it throw in an attack or two now and then?

I would encourage some spaders to take a longer look at TNT. I think it's a lot more powerful than you seem to think. I could be wrong, but knowing the math, I think you're underestimating it.

Points taken on the caffeine and sugar, which have both been bumped up a bit. Sugar is pretty close to stroopwafel, and with some variance that means if you're lucky it's better, and if you're unlucky it's no worse than the middling candy. Oil can coffee averages out to just better than Mr. Tea. I don't think I can justify making it much better than that, despite the cost.

Unstable isotopes have had the base PP return increased significantly, because that was a fair point. But it's tough to talk about this stuff because I don't know what people have figured out yet, and what you're assuming. For instance, is anyone even aware that there's a base return, and then a greater (potentially much greater) return under the right circumstances? The wiki is still pretty sparse on data from these items, so I'm going to assume that the player base at large still has incomplete info about it, too.

Also the items are now multi-usable. I'll make the Recyclonizer vend multiple one of these days, too.

Heh. No kidding

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The churches are empty / The priest has gone home / And we are left standing / Together alone
--October Project: "Dark Time"

Thematically, I like the IotM. It adds new content in a fairly original way. As or the usefulness, of course it'll be more useful in an ascension context. This is the issue with most of the IotMs to date. Until we see what the ascension will be like, we have to hope they'll be worth their stars.

Some of the items are more useful in a power leveling context, though. I think it's pretty nicely balanced, especially after the adjustment to the coffee and sugar.

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The churches are empty / The priest has gone home / And we are left standing / Together alone
--October Project: "Dark Time"

I'm curious, why does the Recyclonizer have a maximum capacity? I'm probably missing something here, but would it become unbalanced if it could be loaded up with everything someone wanted to get rid of before they started making stuff? Does it have to do with possible future "ascension" ability and needing to make it so people can't load it up with points to then use them after "ascending"?

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Davan Fitzara in game.

Seems like a crappy way to push people to go "green"

Needs more red if you ask me.

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Even that wouldn't be an issue if it was made clear it's stockpile would be emptied upon Ascension.

Removing the cap would certainly make it easier when making several of something. Doubly so when vend-multiple is implemented.

I would have to agree.

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I've won the 100k DD bet so many times, I should have the title "Mr. Luck"

It has a maximum capacity because, although Ryme is doing his best, the chances of there, at some point, being an infinite item bug of some kind is not out of the question, and if there wasn't a cap, that would then give someone infinite Recyclonizing charges.

That's what I thought, anyway, when I noticed the cap.

Oooh, boost on coffee and sugar, though?

This was the main reason. I don't think I can make it clear that it will be emptied upon ascension, because I don't know for sure how that will work, and the game doesn't even have a retcon feature yet, and some players simply wouldn't know what such a warning meant.

If I don't have a limit, someone, somewhere (or many someones) will end up dumping a few million chips worth of items into the thing and then have a massive disappointment if they accidentally or unwittingly lose what's in there. So this is planning ahead for that.

If it makes you feel better, it's also protection against accidentally destroying a very large number of items instead of a small number. I'm not sure I support protecting players from themselves like that a lot, but it's undoubtedly already served that purpose.

The number 300 was fairly arbitrary, though. If 500 or 1000 as a cap would ease the pain of production that might be okay.

Yes, please.

The recyclonizer is a donation item. It's supposed to be good. It's not. It was a brilliant idea that Ryme is working very hard to make ordinary.
I would be happy with it if it had a limited number of uses per day and the products were significantly better. A few very good items would make me joyful, in a way that lots of very expensive, but only slightly better than ordinary items do not.

The interface needs work.
A "recycle as many of these as the device can hold without exceeding its capacity" button would be very helpful.
A multi-use widget for the output would also be nice.

The "resource unit" concept is unnecessarily cumbersome.
I don't want to have to search for expendable stuff that's valued in multiples of 10. Why not just multiply the capacity and the unit cost of everything by 10, and avoid the annoyance?

Yeah, it does need work, but that wouldn't make a bad item good or a good item bad.



Dunno. I figured small units would be easier to deal with than large ones. Particularly now that it's expanded to 1000 units, counting to 10,000 in chips value is a pretty big number. Based on your comment about multiples of 10, I assume there's an unspoken dislike of losing any extra chip value due to rounding, too, right? That hadn't really occurred to me until now, but I'm not sure what to do about it.

As noted just above, I've upped the cap to 1000 units.

Also, and probably much more importantly, I've added a feature where any recyclonizer owners will occasionally find some scrap metal that can only be recycled -- essentially some free recycle points every day. It is capped daily, but assuming you play your daily allotment of turns it should be enough to get two sugar items or the caffeine plus some each day.

It's not a big deal for expensive items (a percent or two penalty) but it's crippling for the kind of cheap junk you can find in Somerset, which will become an issue when retcon is implemented. It would be nice to be able to recycle all those 5 chip baseballs and stuff.

Simple solution: multiply unit costs and device capacity by a factor of 10, and in the event of any attempt to recycle items in excess of the maximum capacity, just use as many as possible not to exceed the maximum, so no calculation is required of the user.

Why not make the return value 1/10th of the autosell? For example a bow of hazard (52 chips autosell) giving 5.2 points in return.

On a related note, I was kind of expecting the description of the scrap metal to be more funnier. Some Elvis joke or something like: "This is a hunk of a scrap metal that you can take home with you and... er... recycle or something."

Edit|or: hunk of a scrap metal -- "This is an attractive piece of scrap metal that you can take home with you and... er... recycle or something."