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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 8:11 am 
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I was wondering how people approach the Gadgeteer class, and if they actually utilize the Gadgeteer's combat abilities.

Every time I try to work Stun-Gas into my repertoire I always feel that I'd be much better off hitting my for, than trying to nerf him.

Stun-Gas has a 20% to 30% stun rate. I usually don't have any SP in it, so it only stuns 1 out of every 5 times. And the stun only prevents getting hit that round -- not the next round. So really it only means you get to nerf your opponent for free 1/5th of the time. 4/5ths of the time you pay for it by getting hit. So, is reducing toHit and Offense by 5 (to 10) worth the price of getting hit for 80% foe damage (80% - 5offense, whatever that translates to)?

I guess it would depend how many rounds it takes you to kill the baddie vs. how many stuns it takes to drop his toHit below your dodging ability.

It usually takes me no more than 2-3 hits to bring a guy down. So, let's say he gets 2 hits on me (200%). For 6PP I can reduce that by 40%, but still not necessarily ensure he's not going to hit me in the following 2-3 rounds. But for the sake of argument, say 6PP is enough to take him to where he can't hit me. Is that 40% damage more or less than 1 cast of First-Aid (15HP, though I'm much more likely to put SP points here since the skill is universally useful). So, the foe has to be doing at least 23dam per round AND the toHit needs to be 10 away from unhitable. And of course, I haven't even addressed Critical Hits.

Maybe my math or logic is all screwy, but I just don't see how this is worth it. At 10SP, the comparison is 45HP for First-Aid, or 53dam per round AND toHit needs to be 20 away from unhitable.

Shock-grenade seems to have similar problems and a very high PP cost.

Does anyone use these on a regular basis?

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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 8:15 am 
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Not on a regular basis.

Sometimes if I'm feeling panicked I use Stun Gas to hopefully... stun the opponent, giving myself a brief respite. But I'm not sure if that's good judgement or not.

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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 8:20 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:04 pm
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I don't know if it's due to ignorance of mechanics or laziness, but I tend to approach all four classes in the exact same way. The only real variance is when I'm a naturalist, which means some of the time I'll stun my opponent until tame works. Otherwise I stick with spells, pumping skill points into them as I can.


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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 10:15 am 
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12 of my 13 retcons were Gadgeteer, mostly Maso so I relied on the Gadgeteer skills. I put all my skill points into the 2 passives and Improved Tinkering, and used Stun Gas only for the Mick. With other bosses or tough enemies it wasn't worth Stun Gassing because otherwise I'd have lost too much HP by the time I'd started damaging the enemy. I never found a use for Electric Net or Shock Grenade. Most of my experience of Shock Grenade was pre-retcon in the Space Station and pre Skill Points too though.

My last Maso Gadgeteer was an experiment where I put 10 points into Stun Gas but it didn't improve on my old method except for making The Mick a lot easier.

Having said all that I'm not an optimal player, Cris would be a better advisor.


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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 8:11 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:01 am
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Location: the Conservatory with the lead pipe
Honestly, once you have Vim, the rest is gravy. If I was doing a gadget maso run, though...

Priority would go to increasing Reflexes to various break points for extra attacks. Guatemalan pepper cannon or Zeno's bow would be gear priorities for the weakening or bonus attack respectively. The Golem's Glock isn't too bad, but overrated, especially when compared to Zeno's. Other important pieces of equipment that may be over looked are Docker's Pants (38 power, level 6, +4 DA) and Carapace Shield (16 power, level 4, +1 DA).

For skills, primary focus would be Basic Martial Arts for the to-hit, followed by Upgrade Armor (superabsorbance for most of the run, resistance for the Mick). After that, I would look at Upgrade Weapons; a lot of people like Frickin' Sharp for the to-hit, but I like Self-Balancing for the fumble reduction and eventual bonus crits. Beyond those (and I'd only put 6 in Weapons), skill points could go as you please. First Aid's handy, and Advanced Martial Arts increases damage. And Metal Detector's always useful, of course.

Personally, I've always been kind of disappointed with the Gadgeteer combat skills. Well, at least since Stun Gas got nerfed back in Alpha. Still, looking at the skills, Stun Gas can reduce to-hit and offense, both of which are handy; they'll hit less often and not as hard. Honestly, the chance to stun should be viewed as a side bonus, not the primary concern. At full points, a single Stun Gas should solidly work over any at-level foe.

Electric Net's been changed a lot over time, but looks like a good candidate for some scaling-type monsters since it reduces their dodge. Sadly, they'll still be able to punch your face in. The damage is... kinda meh, but it'll slowly improve as you level. Not by much though, since it uses square root. The dodge reduction will grow better though. At max, you'll reduce their dodge by a little more than max gas reduces their to-hit, and you'll do some (elemental) damage. Still, reducing their dodge is arguably less useful than reducing their to-hit, especially against the Mick.

Shock Grenade looks to be a beefy version of Stun Gas, doing sonic damage and its maxed reductions being four times that of the gas. At zero points, it's twice the reduction of a maxed out gas. Still, you're trading a chance to stun for sonic damage. The damage formula isn't too shabby, though, doing 10-20 at level 10 with zero points in it. Of course, it's level 13.

If you have access to all your Gadgeteer skills, I wouldn't put points into any of the combat skills. That's not to say they don't have a use, just that you've got better things to improve. Stun Gas can be used if you're a little weak for your zone earlier on, and then migrate to grenade as you reach tougher zones and can better handle the higher PP cost. It's also worth considering using the net against the Troutmaster. In no-items, you're probably using the Bass-o-matic, which is melee, so a -dodge would help. Furthermore, he's weak to electric (at least currently) so the damage would actually be noticeable. A single net would probably suffice, especially if you opened with a stun gas.

Oh, also, Battle Armor is freaking insane. Perm it if you haven't already. Even with no SP in it, 30 + Level defense is amazing.

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